dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Jun 4, 2021 21:44:11 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, so I thought I’d share a few thoughts on it. A bit of background on my system for context first. I’m using a Technics SL-1200G with an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge. Up to now I’ve been using an NJC Phono Preamp and NJC SUT for quite a while, including with previous TT/cart combos. I’ve always been really happy with the combo and always felt they were very clear and neutral. All of this goes in to a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 amp which drives Dynaudio Special Forty speakers and 2 Lyngdorf BW-2 subs. The speakers and subs are integrated by the Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect room correction system. The Lyngdorf operates entirely in the digital domain. Of course this means that everything analogue is digitised which I realise might be an anathema to some, but all I have ever heard from the Lyngdorf is utter transparency. I have to admit I wasn’t sure what improvement could really be had on the NJC pair as there is no perceptible character to their sound and nothing overt to fault. I really like them and they’re a lovely little company to deal with so I had mixed feelings about attempting to better them. The only thing that I have struggled with a little is inconsistent treble performance. Nothing ‘bad’ but just a sense that sometimes the treble seems a little muted, and at others that it seems too shrill. More often the former. I’ve played about endlessly with SRA and resistive loading, and frustrated myself no end with inconsistent results. I’ve been much happier since I got the Techie, and since then by and large left things alone with a loading of around 100R, but still on occasion the sense is still of the treble being a touch ‘recessed’. I should say at this point that the BB3 is my very first foray into the world of valves and to the best of my recollection the first time I have ever heard a valve based product! I’ve always been intrigued by valves, and I like the idea that if I’m going to have an analogue front end, then it may as well be a properly old school analogue front end. I was keeping an eye out for a second hand 834P or similar for a punt, and then stumbled across talk of BB Audio here and there, so I did a lot of googling and read many pages of various fora, before contacting Ollie and taking the plunge! It seems like Ollie has been inundated, so I had plenty of time for my appetite to be thoroughly whetted before finally it arrived. I have to say that first impressions were very good. It is a very nicely put together and professionally presented bit of kit and it was very well packaged. I got it all hooked up and switched it on with a satisfying click of the soft-start relay. I was keen to see what the background noise would be like as being an SUT followed by a very well designed solid state preamp, the NJC pairing is completely silent and I knew that with valves it wouldn’t be. As I turned the amp up I could hear a feint hiss that sounded a bit like wind noise, but it was nothing untoward and the volume was turned up pretty high to be able to hear anything at the listening position with no music playing. I was happy with that. I decided to wait 15 minutes for it to warm up a little. 5 minutes later, I stuck on the first record. I played First Mind by Nick Mulvey which is really nice singer/songwriter fayre, but a cut above in my opinion as he draws on some really diverse influences. It took about 3 seconds for me to recognise that it sounded different, and about 5 to hear details that I hadn’t heard before. Then I started to hear a little distortion, which sounded like clipping of the peaks... not good. I quickly realised that I had previously whacked the input sensitivity right up on the amp because the gain was much lower with the NJCs. I was overloading the input stage on the amp. I adjusted that back down, and put Nick back on...That’s better. Phew! 30 seconds later and I was grinning from ear to ear because it was obvious that the BB3 is something special. I have always found the second track, Fever to the Form, absolutely beguiling but it gets progressively ‘busier’ as it goes on and has always sounded a little congested to me. I had always assumed it was the recording as it has been the same on vinyl and digital. The BB3 clearly showed that it is not the recording. For the first time all the individual instrumental threads were clearly resolved and easy to follow. The slight ‘murk’ in between the instruments has turned into other instruments! Lovely. Second thing I played was Half Mile Harvest by The Teskey Brothers which is a nice relaxed folky bluesy kind of thing. I was struck by the character of the guitars, which sounded sublime and just added so much life and meaning to the music. Again all the subtle details were clearly resolved like never before and I just thought to myself, ‘wow, these guys are even better than I thought they were!’ The tonal balance is not hugely different from the NJCs in that it is essentially neutral, but it’s the resolution that really sets the BB3 apart. Right up and down the frequency range you can just follow everything more clearly and the character of every instrument is presented beautifully. I didn’t think I was missing anything with the NJC pair, but things that I didn’t really consciously notice because they were only hinted at are now clearly presented. I do think that the BB3 sounds ‘richer’ because there is just so much more colour and character to everything. Some people might describe this as ‘warm’, but I think that carries a connotation of colouration which is absolutely not the case. The slights doubts over the treble? Gone. It just sounds totally consistent and natural now. Ollie had mentioned that he always found SUTs did weird things and no two he tried ever sounded the same and I think he might be on to something. I’m sure my musical tastes are a bit low-brow compared to some, but I know what I like and I know what it has always sounded like. I’ve listed to Ocean Colour Scene, Black Pumas, Roger Waters, Radiohead, TV on the Radio, Air, Michael Kiwanuka and The Cinematic Orchestra over the past couple of days and I’ve heard every one of them sound better than ever before. The soundstage is nice and 3-dimensional. Not really much different to with the NJCs in terms of the perceived dimensions, but what is different is that you can really hear ‘into’ the mix and because each instrument is so clearly resolved it seems to have space around it which clearly sets it apart from others. Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Got to watch that! Also my wife says, and I quote, “tell him the light on the power button is too bright.”  Right...it may be time to roll out the big guns (Pink Floyd). I’ll post some further thoughts over the coming days. Ollie - thank you, it’s a truly great product and I love that something so unique is now part of my Hi-Fi. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 4, 2021 22:35:51 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, so I thought I’d share a few thoughts on it. A bit of background on my system for context first. I’m using a Technics SL-1200G with an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge. Up to now I’ve been using an NJC Phono Preamp and NJC SUT for quite a while, including with previous TT/cart combos. I’ve always been really happy with the combo and always felt they were very clear and neutral. All of this goes in to a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 amp which drives Dynaudio Special Forty speakers and 2 Lyngdorf BW-2 subs. The speakers and subs are integrated by the Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect room correction system. The Lyngdorf operates entirely in the digital domain. Of course this means that everything analogue is digitised which I realise might be an anathema to some, but all I have ever heard from the Lyngdorf is utter transparency. I have to admit I wasn’t sure what improvement could really be had on the NJC pair as there is no perceptible character to their sound and nothing overt to fault. I really like them and they’re a lovely little company to deal with so I had mixed feelings about attempting to better them. The only thing that I have struggled with a little is inconsistent treble performance. Nothing ‘bad’ but just a sense that sometimes the treble seems a little muted, and at others that it seems too shrill. More often the former. I’ve played about endlessly with SRA and resistive loading, and frustrated myself no end with inconsistent results. I’ve been much happier since I got the Techie, and since then by and large left things alone with a loading of around 100R, but still on occasion the sense is still of the treble being a touch ‘recessed’. I should say at this point that the BB3 is my very first foray into the world of valves and to the best of my recollection the first time I have ever heard a valve based product! I’ve always been intrigued by valves, and I like the idea that if I’m going to have an analogue front end, then it may as well be a properly old school analogue front end. I was keeping an eye out for a second hand 834P or similar for a punt, and then stumbled across talk of BB Audio here and there, so I did a lot of googling and read many pages of various fora, before contacting Ollie and taking the plunge! It seems like Ollie has been inundated, so I had plenty of time for my appetite to be thoroughly whetted before finally it arrived. I have to say that first impressions were very good. It is a very nicely put together and professionally presented bit of kit and it was very well packaged. I got it all hooked up and switched it on with a satisfying click of the soft-start relay. I was keen to see what the background noise would be like as being an SUT followed by a very well designed solid state preamp, the NJC pairing is completely silent and I knew that with valves it wouldn’t be. As I turned the amp up I could hear a feint hiss that sounded a bit like wind noise, but it was nothing untoward and the volume was turned up pretty high to be able to hear anything at the listening position with no music playing. I was happy with that. I decided to wait 15 minutes for it to warm up a little. 5 minutes later, I stuck on the first record. I played First Mind by Nick Mulvey which is really nice singer/songwriter fayre, but a cut above in my opinion as he draws on some really diverse influences. It took about 3 seconds for me to recognise that it sounded different, and about 5 to hear details that I hadn’t heard before. Then I started to hear a little distortion, which sounded like clipping of the peaks... not good. I quickly realised that I had previously whacked the input sensitivity right up on the amp because the gain was much lower with the NJCs. I was overloading the input stage on the amp. I adjusted that back down, and put Nick back on...That’s better. Phew! 30 seconds later and I was grinning from ear to ear because it was obvious that the BB3 is something special. I have always found the second track, Fever to the Form, absolutely beguiling but it gets progressively ‘busier’ as it goes on and has always sounded a little congested to me. I had always assumed it was the recording as it has been the same on vinyl and digital. The BB3 clearly showed that it is not the recording. For the first time all the individual instrumental threads were clearly resolved and easy to follow. The slight ‘murk’ in between the instruments has turned into other instruments! Lovely. Second thing I played was Half Mile Harvest by The Teskey Brothers which is a nice relaxed folky bluesy kind of thing. I was struck by the character of the guitars, which sounded sublime and just added so much life and meaning to the music. Again all the subtle details were clearly resolved like never before and I just thought to myself, ‘wow, these guys are even better than I thought they were!’ The tonal balance is not hugely different from the NJCs in that it is essentially neutral, but it’s the resolution that really sets the BB3 apart. Right up and down the frequency range you can just follow everything more clearly and the character of every instrument is presented beautifully. I didn’t think I was missing anything with the NJC pair, but things that I didn’t really consciously notice because they were only hinted at are now clearly presented. I do think that the BB3 sounds ‘richer’ because there is just so much more colour and character to everything. Some people might describe this as ‘warm’, but I think that carries a connotation of colouration which is absolutely not the case. The slights doubts over the treble? Gone. It just sounds totally consistent and natural now. Ollie had mentioned that he always found SUTs did weird things and no two he tried ever sounded the same and I think he might be on to something. I’m sure my musical tastes are a bit low-brow compared to some, but I know what I like and I know what it has always sounded like. I’ve listed to Ocean Colour Scene, Black Pumas, Roger Waters, Radiohead, TV on the Radio, Air, Michael Kiwanuka and The Cinematic Orchestra over the past couple of days and I’ve heard every one of them sound better than ever before. The soundstage is nice and 3-dimensional. Not really much different to with the NJCs in terms of the perceived dimensions, but what is different is that you can really hear ‘into’ the mix and because each instrument is so clearly resolved it seems to have space around it which clearly sets it apart from others. Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Got to watch that! Also my wife says, and I quote, “tell him the light on the power button is too bright.” Right...it may be time to roll out the big guns (Pink Floyd). I’ll post some further thoughts over the coming days. Ollie - thank you, it’s a truly great product and I love that something so unique is now part of my Hi-Fi. Hi Dan, Obviously Alan and I are delighted with your initial impressions and I appreciate that you took the time to share them. It's always a nail biting when one of these lands, as I just don't know what reaction awaits! I can now breathe a little easier. I am 100% on to something with SUTs BTW. Terrible things! haha. To your wife: Duly noted, I'll do better 🧐 I do dim them, honest! lol Keep us updated on your experience as everything opens up. I like this part ☺️ |
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Jun 4, 2021 22:42:37 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, so I thought I’d share a few thoughts on it. A bit of background on my system for context first. I’m using a Technics SL-1200G with an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge. Up to now I’ve been using an NJC Phono Preamp and NJC SUT for quite a while, including with previous TT/cart combos. I’ve always been really happy with the combo and always felt they were very clear and neutral. All of this goes in to a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 amp which drives Dynaudio Special Forty speakers and 2 Lyngdorf BW-2 subs. The speakers and subs are integrated by the Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect room correction system. The Lyngdorf operates entirely in the digital domain. Of course this means that everything analogue is digitised which I realise might be an anathema to some, but all I have ever heard from the Lyngdorf is utter transparency. I have to admit I wasn’t sure what improvement could really be had on the NJC pair as there is no perceptible character to their sound and nothing overt to fault. I really like them and they’re a lovely little company to deal with so I had mixed feelings about attempting to better them. The only thing that I have struggled with a little is inconsistent treble performance. Nothing ‘bad’ but just a sense that sometimes the treble seems a little muted, and at others that it seems too shrill. More often the former. I’ve played about endlessly with SRA and resistive loading, and frustrated myself no end with inconsistent results. I’ve been much happier since I got the Techie, and since then by and large left things alone with a loading of around 100R, but still on occasion the sense is still of the treble being a touch ‘recessed’. I should say at this point that the BB3 is my very first foray into the world of valves and to the best of my recollection the first time I have ever heard a valve based product! I’ve always been intrigued by valves, and I like the idea that if I’m going to have an analogue front end, then it may as well be a properly old school analogue front end. I was keeping an eye out for a second hand 834P or similar for a punt, and then stumbled across talk of BB Audio here and there, so I did a lot of googling and read many pages of various fora, before contacting Ollie and taking the plunge! It seems like Ollie has been inundated, so I had plenty of time for my appetite to be thoroughly whetted before finally it arrived. I have to say that first impressions were very good. It is a very nicely put together and professionally presented bit of kit and it was very well packaged. I got it all hooked up and switched it on with a satisfying click of the soft-start relay. I was keen to see what the background noise would be like as being an SUT followed by a very well designed solid state preamp, the NJC pairing is completely silent and I knew that with valves it wouldn’t be. As I turned the amp up I could hear a feint hiss that sounded a bit like wind noise, but it was nothing untoward and the volume was turned up pretty high to be able to hear anything at the listening position with no music playing. I was happy with that. I decided to wait 15 minutes for it to warm up a little. 5 minutes later, I stuck on the first record. I played First Mind by Nick Mulvey which is really nice singer/songwriter fayre, but a cut above in my opinion as he draws on some really diverse influences. It took about 3 seconds for me to recognise that it sounded different, and about 5 to hear details that I hadn’t heard before. Then I started to hear a little distortion, which sounded like clipping of the peaks... not good. I quickly realised that I had previously whacked the input sensitivity right up on the amp because the gain was much lower with the NJCs. I was overloading the input stage on the amp. I adjusted that back down, and put Nick back on...That’s better. Phew! 30 seconds later and I was grinning from ear to ear because it was obvious that the BB3 is something special. I have always found the second track, Fever to the Form, absolutely beguiling but it gets progressively ‘busier’ as it goes on and has always sounded a little congested to me. I had always assumed it was the recording as it has been the same on vinyl and digital. The BB3 clearly showed that it is not the recording. For the first time all the individual instrumental threads were clearly resolved and easy to follow. The slight ‘murk’ in between the instruments has turned into other instruments! Lovely. Second thing I played was Half Mile Harvest by The Teskey Brothers which is a nice relaxed folky bluesy kind of thing. I was struck by the character of the guitars, which sounded sublime and just added so much life and meaning to the music. Again all the subtle details were clearly resolved like never before and I just thought to myself, ‘wow, these guys are even better than I thought they were!’ The tonal balance is not hugely different from the NJCs in that it is essentially neutral, but it’s the resolution that really sets the BB3 apart. Right up and down the frequency range you can just follow everything more clearly and the character of every instrument is presented beautifully. I didn’t think I was missing anything with the NJC pair, but things that I didn’t really consciously notice because they were only hinted at are now clearly presented. I do think that the BB3 sounds ‘richer’ because there is just so much more colour and character to everything. Some people might describe this as ‘warm’, but I think that carries a connotation of colouration which is absolutely not the case. The slights doubts over the treble? Gone. It just sounds totally consistent and natural now. Ollie had mentioned that he always found SUTs did weird things and no two he tried ever sounded the same and I think he might be on to something. I’m sure my musical tastes are a bit low-brow compared to some, but I know what I like and I know what it has always sounded like. I’ve listed to Ocean Colour Scene, Black Pumas, Roger Waters, Radiohead, TV on the Radio, Air, Michael Kiwanuka and The Cinematic Orchestra over the past couple of days and I’ve heard every one of them sound better than ever before. The soundstage is nice and 3-dimensional. Not really much different to with the NJCs in terms of the perceived dimensions, but what is different is that you can really hear ‘into’ the mix and because each instrument is so clearly resolved it seems to have space around it which clearly sets it apart from others. Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Got to watch that! Also my wife says, and I quote, “tell him the light on the power button is too bright.” Right...it may be time to roll out the big guns (Pink Floyd). I’ll post some further thoughts over the coming days. Ollie - thank you, it’s a truly great product and I love that something so unique is now part of my Hi-Fi. Hi Dan, Obviously Alan and I are delighted with your initial impressions and I appreciate that you took the time to share them. It's always a nail biting when one of these lands, as I just don't know what reaction awaits! I can now breathe a little easier. I am 100% on to something with SUTs BTW. Terrible things! haha. To your wife: Duly noted, I'll do better 🧐 I do dim them, honest! lol Keep us updated on your experience as everything opens up. I like this part ☺️ Yes, and thanks to Alan as well obviously! |
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Jun 4, 2021 23:05:07 GMT
Well that’s it for a few days actually as we’re going away for the weekend, but from Hot Chip to Pink Floyd it has sounded simply lovely this evening. Boiled down to it’s most basic I think what the BB3 does so well is that every sound is beautifully resolved and no sound seems to interfere with any other sound.
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Post by antonio on Jun 5, 2021 0:40:50 GMT
Another satisfied customer, can't be bad
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Jun 5, 2021 7:04:56 GMT
Further feedback from the Mrs - She loves the design, especially the Bigbottle motif on the front. She hasn’t listened to it properly yet as she’s had a headache (possibly because of how loudly I’ve been playing things!)
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Post by firebottle on Jun 5, 2021 7:08:46 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, .... Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Fabulous that you are enjoying vinyl as it is supposed to sound. As for the negative, I see that as a back handed compliment, 'The only negative is that you have to turn things up' will need to go on the user guide! |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 5, 2021 7:12:45 GMT
Further feedback from the Mrs - She loves the design, especially the Bigbottle motif on the front. She hasn’t listened to it properly yet as she’s had a headache (possibly because of how loudly I’ve been playing things!) 🤣🤣 how loud DID you have it lol |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 5, 2021 7:13:33 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, .... Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Fabulous that you are enjoying vinyl as it is supposed to sound. As for the negative, I see that as a back handed compliment, 'The only negative is that you have to turn things up' will need to go on the user guide! Hahaha, shall I put it in? I might just do. |
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Jun 5, 2021 7:22:51 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, .... Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Fabulous that you are enjoying vinyl as it is supposed to sound. As for the negative, I see that as a back handed compliment, 'The only negative is that you have to turn things up' will need to go on the user guide! Yes, I was joking when I mentioned that as a negative  . Well semi-joking, but I didn’t mean it as a criticism of the BB3. As it happens we had a visitor yesterday and my wife turned the volume right down and remember thinking how good it still sounded when it was really quiet. The soundstage was still there perfectly formed. |
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Post by stevew on Jun 5, 2021 8:43:47 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, so I thought I’d share a few thoughts on it. A bit of background on my system for context first. I’m using a Technics SL-1200G with an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge. Up to now I’ve been using an NJC Phono Preamp and NJC SUT for quite a while, including with previous TT/cart combos. I’ve always been really happy with the combo and always felt they were very clear and neutral. All of this goes in to a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 amp which drives Dynaudio Special Forty speakers and 2 Lyngdorf BW-2 subs. The speakers and subs are integrated by the Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect room correction system. The Lyngdorf operates entirely in the digital domain. Of course this means that everything analogue is digitised which I realise might be an anathema to some, but all I have ever heard from the Lyngdorf is utter transparency. I have to admit I wasn’t sure what improvement could really be had on the NJC pair as there is no perceptible character to their sound and nothing overt to fault. I really like them and they’re a lovely little company to deal with so I had mixed feelings about attempting to better them. The only thing that I have struggled with a little is inconsistent treble performance. Nothing ‘bad’ but just a sense that sometimes the treble seems a little muted, and at others that it seems too shrill. More often the former. I’ve played about endlessly with SRA and resistive loading, and frustrated myself no end with inconsistent results. I’ve been much happier since I got the Techie, and since then by and large left things alone with a loading of around 100R, but still on occasion the sense is still of the treble being a touch ‘recessed’. I should say at this point that the BB3 is my very first foray into the world of valves and to the best of my recollection the first time I have ever heard a valve based product! I’ve always been intrigued by valves, and I like the idea that if I’m going to have an analogue front end, then it may as well be a properly old school analogue front end. I was keeping an eye out for a second hand 834P or similar for a punt, and then stumbled across talk of BB Audio here and there, so I did a lot of googling and read many pages of various fora, before contacting Ollie and taking the plunge! It seems like Ollie has been inundated, so I had plenty of time for my appetite to be thoroughly whetted before finally it arrived. I have to say that first impressions were very good. It is a very nicely put together and professionally presented bit of kit and it was very well packaged. I got it all hooked up and switched it on with a satisfying click of the soft-start relay. I was keen to see what the background noise would be like as being an SUT followed by a very well designed solid state preamp, the NJC pairing is completely silent and I knew that with valves it wouldn’t be. As I turned the amp up I could hear a feint hiss that sounded a bit like wind noise, but it was nothing untoward and the volume was turned up pretty high to be able to hear anything at the listening position with no music playing. I was happy with that. I decided to wait 15 minutes for it to warm up a little. 5 minutes later, I stuck on the first record. I played First Mind by Nick Mulvey which is really nice singer/songwriter fayre, but a cut above in my opinion as he draws on some really diverse influences. It took about 3 seconds for me to recognise that it sounded different, and about 5 to hear details that I hadn’t heard before. Then I started to hear a little distortion, which sounded like clipping of the peaks... not good. I quickly realised that I had previously whacked the input sensitivity right up on the amp because the gain was much lower with the NJCs. I was overloading the input stage on the amp. I adjusted that back down, and put Nick back on...That’s better. Phew! 30 seconds later and I was grinning from ear to ear because it was obvious that the BB3 is something special. I have always found the second track, Fever to the Form, absolutely beguiling but it gets progressively ‘busier’ as it goes on and has always sounded a little congested to me. I had always assumed it was the recording as it has been the same on vinyl and digital. The BB3 clearly showed that it is not the recording. For the first time all the individual instrumental threads were clearly resolved and easy to follow. The slight ‘murk’ in between the instruments has turned into other instruments! Lovely. Second thing I played was Half Mile Harvest by The Teskey Brothers which is a nice relaxed folky bluesy kind of thing. I was struck by the character of the guitars, which sounded sublime and just added so much life and meaning to the music. Again all the subtle details were clearly resolved like never before and I just thought to myself, ‘wow, these guys are even better than I thought they were!’ The tonal balance is not hugely different from the NJCs in that it is essentially neutral, but it’s the resolution that really sets the BB3 apart. Right up and down the frequency range you can just follow everything more clearly and the character of every instrument is presented beautifully. I didn’t think I was missing anything with the NJC pair, but things that I didn’t really consciously notice because they were only hinted at are now clearly presented. I do think that the BB3 sounds ‘richer’ because there is just so much more colour and character to everything. Some people might describe this as ‘warm’, but I think that carries a connotation of colouration which is absolutely not the case. The slights doubts over the treble? Gone. It just sounds totally consistent and natural now. Ollie had mentioned that he always found SUTs did weird things and no two he tried ever sounded the same and I think he might be on to something. I’m sure my musical tastes are a bit low-brow compared to some, but I know what I like and I know what it has always sounded like. I’ve listed to Ocean Colour Scene, Black Pumas, Roger Waters, Radiohead, TV on the Radio, Air, Michael Kiwanuka and The Cinematic Orchestra over the past couple of days and I’ve heard every one of them sound better than ever before. The soundstage is nice and 3-dimensional. Not really much different to with the NJCs in terms of the perceived dimensions, but what is different is that you can really hear ‘into’ the mix and because each instrument is so clearly resolved it seems to have space around it which clearly sets it apart from others. Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Got to watch that! Also my wife says, and I quote, “tell him the light on the power button is too bright.” Right...it may be time to roll out the big guns (Pink Floyd). I’ll post some further thoughts over the coming days. Ollie - thank you, it’s a truly great product and I love that something so unique is now part of my Hi-Fi. Great write up Dan. Reflects totally my experience of using a BB3 into a Lyngdorf amp. Just sounds so right. Don’t know which valves you have in, but it gets even better with Telefunkens |
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Post by macca on Jun 5, 2021 9:12:41 GMT
'The slight ‘murk’ in between the instruments has turned into other instruments!'
Brilliant description.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 9:21:02 GMT
And that is with the standard valve fitment?
When/if you get finally get bored, fit some better valves for another uplift in quality.
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Jun 5, 2021 10:09:17 GMT
I received my eagerly anticipated BB3 this week, so I thought I’d share a few thoughts on it. A bit of background on my system for context first. I’m using a Technics SL-1200G with an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge. Up to now I’ve been using an NJC Phono Preamp and NJC SUT for quite a while, including with previous TT/cart combos. I’ve always been really happy with the combo and always felt they were very clear and neutral. All of this goes in to a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 amp which drives Dynaudio Special Forty speakers and 2 Lyngdorf BW-2 subs. The speakers and subs are integrated by the Lyngdorf’s RoomPerfect room correction system. The Lyngdorf operates entirely in the digital domain. Of course this means that everything analogue is digitised which I realise might be an anathema to some, but all I have ever heard from the Lyngdorf is utter transparency. I have to admit I wasn’t sure what improvement could really be had on the NJC pair as there is no perceptible character to their sound and nothing overt to fault. I really like them and they’re a lovely little company to deal with so I had mixed feelings about attempting to better them. The only thing that I have struggled with a little is inconsistent treble performance. Nothing ‘bad’ but just a sense that sometimes the treble seems a little muted, and at others that it seems too shrill. More often the former. I’ve played about endlessly with SRA and resistive loading, and frustrated myself no end with inconsistent results. I’ve been much happier since I got the Techie, and since then by and large left things alone with a loading of around 100R, but still on occasion the sense is still of the treble being a touch ‘recessed’. I should say at this point that the BB3 is my very first foray into the world of valves and to the best of my recollection the first time I have ever heard a valve based product! I’ve always been intrigued by valves, and I like the idea that if I’m going to have an analogue front end, then it may as well be a properly old school analogue front end. I was keeping an eye out for a second hand 834P or similar for a punt, and then stumbled across talk of BB Audio here and there, so I did a lot of googling and read many pages of various fora, before contacting Ollie and taking the plunge! It seems like Ollie has been inundated, so I had plenty of time for my appetite to be thoroughly whetted before finally it arrived. I have to say that first impressions were very good. It is a very nicely put together and professionally presented bit of kit and it was very well packaged. I got it all hooked up and switched it on with a satisfying click of the soft-start relay. I was keen to see what the background noise would be like as being an SUT followed by a very well designed solid state preamp, the NJC pairing is completely silent and I knew that with valves it wouldn’t be. As I turned the amp up I could hear a feint hiss that sounded a bit like wind noise, but it was nothing untoward and the volume was turned up pretty high to be able to hear anything at the listening position with no music playing. I was happy with that. I decided to wait 15 minutes for it to warm up a little. 5 minutes later, I stuck on the first record. I played First Mind by Nick Mulvey which is really nice singer/songwriter fayre, but a cut above in my opinion as he draws on some really diverse influences. It took about 3 seconds for me to recognise that it sounded different, and about 5 to hear details that I hadn’t heard before. Then I started to hear a little distortion, which sounded like clipping of the peaks... not good. I quickly realised that I had previously whacked the input sensitivity right up on the amp because the gain was much lower with the NJCs. I was overloading the input stage on the amp. I adjusted that back down, and put Nick back on...That’s better. Phew! 30 seconds later and I was grinning from ear to ear because it was obvious that the BB3 is something special. I have always found the second track, Fever to the Form, absolutely beguiling but it gets progressively ‘busier’ as it goes on and has always sounded a little congested to me. I had always assumed it was the recording as it has been the same on vinyl and digital. The BB3 clearly showed that it is not the recording. For the first time all the individual instrumental threads were clearly resolved and easy to follow. The slight ‘murk’ in between the instruments has turned into other instruments! Lovely. Second thing I played was Half Mile Harvest by The Teskey Brothers which is a nice relaxed folky bluesy kind of thing. I was struck by the character of the guitars, which sounded sublime and just added so much life and meaning to the music. Again all the subtle details were clearly resolved like never before and I just thought to myself, ‘wow, these guys are even better than I thought they were!’ The tonal balance is not hugely different from the NJCs in that it is essentially neutral, but it’s the resolution that really sets the BB3 apart. Right up and down the frequency range you can just follow everything more clearly and the character of every instrument is presented beautifully. I didn’t think I was missing anything with the NJC pair, but things that I didn’t really consciously notice because they were only hinted at are now clearly presented. I do think that the BB3 sounds ‘richer’ because there is just so much more colour and character to everything. Some people might describe this as ‘warm’, but I think that carries a connotation of colouration which is absolutely not the case. The slights doubts over the treble? Gone. It just sounds totally consistent and natural now. Ollie had mentioned that he always found SUTs did weird things and no two he tried ever sounded the same and I think he might be on to something. I’m sure my musical tastes are a bit low-brow compared to some, but I know what I like and I know what it has always sounded like. I’ve listed to Ocean Colour Scene, Black Pumas, Roger Waters, Radiohead, TV on the Radio, Air, Michael Kiwanuka and The Cinematic Orchestra over the past couple of days and I’ve heard every one of them sound better than ever before. The soundstage is nice and 3-dimensional. Not really much different to with the NJCs in terms of the perceived dimensions, but what is different is that you can really hear ‘into’ the mix and because each instrument is so clearly resolved it seems to have space around it which clearly sets it apart from others. Negatives.... Well that resolution combined with the Lyngdorf’s transparency means that it’s hard to stop yourself from pushing the volume up and up and up. Got to watch that! Also my wife says, and I quote, “tell him the light on the power button is too bright.” Right...it may be time to roll out the big guns (Pink Floyd). I’ll post some further thoughts over the coming days. Ollie - thank you, it’s a truly great product and I love that something so unique is now part of my Hi-Fi. Great write up Dan. Reflects totally my experience of using a BB3 into a Lyngdorf amp. Just sounds so right. Don’t know which valves you have in, but it gets even better with Telefunkens The standard valves. I’m going to enjoy this and really get to know it before dabbling with valve rolling. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 5, 2021 10:38:26 GMT
Great write up Dan. Reflects totally my experience of using a BB3 into a Lyngdorf amp. Just sounds so right. Don’t know which valves you have in, but it gets even better with Telefunkens The standard valves. I’m going to enjoy this and really get to know it before dabbling with valve rolling. That is very sensible. You know where we are when you want some recommendations |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 5, 2021 17:46:53 GMT
The standard valves. I’m going to enjoy this and really get to know it before dabbling with valve rolling. That is very sensible. You know where we are when you want some recommendations We’ll it sounds like there’s no point mucking about with anything other than Telefunken! I will need some pointers on where to source and what to look for though. That’s a little way off though. I’ll enjoy the ‘stock’ BB3 for a good while first. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 5, 2021 17:50:03 GMT
That is very sensible. You know where we are when you want some recommendations We’ll it sounds like there’s no point mucking about with anything other than Telefunken! I will need some pointers on where to source and what to look for though. That’s a little way off though. I’ll enjoy the ‘stock’ BB3 for a good while first. I don't know, some have reported excellent results with Tungsram and I too think the Radiotechnique are well worth seeking out. |
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Post by antonio on Jun 6, 2021 4:44:44 GMT
Get to know the sound of it with the stock cubes first, then maybe a Tungsram, I think the cheapest option of the better recommended valves  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 6:37:02 GMT
Get to know the sound of it with the stock cubes first, then maybe a Tungsram, I think the cheapest option of the better recommended valves Depends on the Tungsram. 😉 Bargains pop up now and again, like my €55 Mazda Silver plate ECC83, or my €60 TFK ECC83. Set up a search in eBay, and be patient. |
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Post by macca on Jun 6, 2021 7:49:29 GMT
Get to know the sound of it with the stock cubes first, then maybe a Tungsram, I think the cheapest option of the better recommended valves I wouldn't advise bringing gravy into close contact with any electrical apparatus, even if it is Bisto.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 6, 2021 7:56:23 GMT
Get to know the sound of it with the stock cubes first, then maybe a Tungsram, I think the cheapest option of the better recommended valves I wouldn't advise bringing gravy into close contact with any electrical apparatus, even if it is Bisto. 🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 6, 2021 8:51:24 GMT
Get to know the sound of it with the stock cubes first, then maybe a Tungsram, I think the cheapest option of the better recommended valves I wouldn't advise bringing gravy into close contact with any electrical apparatus, even if it is Bisto. Tends to thicken the sound and lacking in clarity 😉😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 8:54:19 GMT
And just be aware that there are an awful lot of Siemens made TFKs on eBay at the moment.
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Post by antonio on Jun 6, 2021 11:09:03 GMT
Get to know the sound of it with the stock cubes first, then maybe a Tungsram, I think the cheapest option of the better recommended valves I wouldn't advise bringing gravy into close contact with any electrical apparatus, even if it is Bisto. Bloody hell, you want my job Macca, it's not as easy as you think, everyday posting and making people smile, making sure they are not taking this hobby too serious, it's supposed to fun, so before I hand over the baton, think it over carefully, mind you I could do with a break |
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Post by macca on Jun 6, 2021 11:45:02 GMT
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 7, 2021 22:09:38 GMT
I’m back home and listening to some more music through the BB3. My initial impressions are very much confirmed and I have enjoyed listening to The Division Bell immensely tonight. I’ve heard many things, listening tonight, that I haven’t heard before and this is on a favourite album that I’ve been listening to for 25 years. The natural decay of a piano key or cymbal, the slight reverb on Gilmour’s voice, an extra string you can hear being being plucked in a passage of guitar play, a subtle backing vocal behind Rick Wright at times on Wearing the Inside Out, hearing each separate and distinct strike of rapidly stuck cymbals with a realistic metallic ‘tang’ instead of a ‘cymbal mush’ ... I could go on.
In terms of changes as things have broken in, I can’t say there’s much yet, but I think the dynamics are opening out a bit. Upon first listening last week it did occur to me that it sounded no different to the old NJC pairing in that regard, whereas this evening I’ve noticed the transition from soft to loud passages seems to have a touch more range, or at least I think I have.
All in all, I couldn’t be happier with my purchase and would highly recommend one to anyone!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 7, 2021 22:40:39 GMT
I’m back home and listening to some more music through the BB3. My initial impressions are very much confirmed and I have enjoyed listening to The Division Bell immensely tonight. I’ve heard many things, listening tonight, that I haven’t heard before and this is on a favourite album that I’ve been listening to for 25 years. The natural decay of a piano key or cymbal, the slight reverb on Gilmour’s voice, an extra string you can hear being being plucked in a passage of guitar play, a subtle backing vocal behind Rick Wright at times on Wearing the Inside Out, hearing each separate and distinct strike of rapidly stuck cymbals with a realistic metallic ‘tang’ instead of a ‘cymbal mush’ ... I could go on. In terms of changes as things have broken in, I can’t say there’s much yet, but I think the dynamics are opening out a bit. Upon first listening last week it did occur to me that it sounded no different to the old NJC pairing in that regard, whereas this evening I’ve noticed the transition from soft to loud passages seems to have a touch more range, or at least I think I have. All in all, I couldn’t be happier with my purchase and would highly recommend one to anyone! "......I could go on" Please do 🤣 The early signs are very promising and to hear new details is a sure sign that things are working well. How many hours do you have on it now? The burn-in process is a real thing, so keep us informed as you go through the markers at the 20/50/75 hour marks. Then drop the old Phonostage in and see where you're at. Better valves deliver a big improvement too. Remember, those included are just to get you up and running and over the burn in period. No point putting 100hrs of burn-in on expensive valves! |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 8, 2021 6:41:15 GMT
I’m back home and listening to some more music through the BB3. My initial impressions are very much confirmed and I have enjoyed listening to The Division Bell immensely tonight. I’ve heard many things, listening tonight, that I haven’t heard before and this is on a favourite album that I’ve been listening to for 25 years. The natural decay of a piano key or cymbal, the slight reverb on Gilmour’s voice, an extra string you can hear being being plucked in a passage of guitar play, a subtle backing vocal behind Rick Wright at times on Wearing the Inside Out, hearing each separate and distinct strike of rapidly stuck cymbals with a realistic metallic ‘tang’ instead of a ‘cymbal mush’ ... I could go on. In terms of changes as things have broken in, I can’t say there’s much yet, but I think the dynamics are opening out a bit. Upon first listening last week it did occur to me that it sounded no different to the old NJC pairing in that regard, whereas this evening I’ve noticed the transition from soft to loud passages seems to have a touch more range, or at least I think I have. All in all, I couldn’t be happier with my purchase and would highly recommend one to anyone! "......I could go on" Please do 🤣 The early signs are very promising and to hear new details is a sure sign that things are working well. How many hours do you have on it now? The burn-in process is a real thing, so keep us informed as you go through the markers at the 20/50/75 hour marks. Then drop the old Phonostage in and see where you're at. Better valves deliver a big improvement too. Remember, those included are just to get you up and running and over the burn in period. No point putting 100hrs of burn-in on expensive valves! I guess probably about 8 hours of playing + 2 of general warming up and idle time. I’ve frustratingly had a lot on since it was delivered! I will certainly report any changes as it gets more time on it. It’s already very impressive. |
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Post by antonio on Jun 8, 2021 23:40:42 GMT
I hope you didn't forget to record the sound straight out of the box. People's audio memory is not usually reliable  |
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Jun 9, 2021 7:13:43 GMT
I hope you didn't forget to record the sound straight out of the box. People's audio memory is not usually reliable I’m afraid I didn’t The initial comparison to my old preamp and SUT was clear as I’d been listening via them for years, and months with my current TT. So I know the BB3 was a nice improvement. From here I’m just going to listen and enjoy and call it as I hear it. I agree that audio memory isn’t great, but when you are listening, but also doing something else (like this) and then a small detail grabs your attention on a familiar recording, then I tend think that is a good indicator that something is different. |
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. Well semi-joking, but I didn’t mean it as a criticism of the BB3.
