Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 6, 2018 12:47:33 GMT
From the bits I’ve seen, you seem to have had some interesting things, Paul. I always expected to try a pair of British Loudspeakers BLQ 1 or BLQ2. It never happened and I’m sad at that. They looked genuinely interesting. I doubt our paths will ever cross now because I’m so heavily into semi and full omni speakers. My wife loves Elas though and I am still a little fond of them myself. I have been outbid on a Reson Reca a couple of times. I was curious to see if it differed. I expected to to be better than the standard Goldrings.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 6, 2018 12:49:30 GMT
hard to find fatigue free kit dsjr imho..one of the reasons i like them..maybe it's an age thing..probably is tbh..as a youngster i liked me music much more in ya face I hear ya.
I'm wondering if a proper bigger speaker wouldn't do it better though. The deeper and better the bass, the less 'top' there seems to be (someone now is going to contradict me here  ). As for what speakers I'd suggest though... I did love the JBL 4367's I heard - so 'unforced' in sound... and it brought back many memories.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 6, 2018 12:50:47 GMT
From the bits I’ve seen, you seem to have had some interesting things, Paul. I always expected to try a pair of British Loudspeakers BLQ 1 or BLQ2. It never happened and I’m sad at that. They looked genuinely interesting. I doubt our paths will ever cross now because I’m so heavily into semi and full omni speakers. My wife loves Elas though and I am still a little fond of them myself. I have been outbid on a Reson Reca a couple of times. I was curious to see if it differed. I expected to to be better than the standard Goldrings. I still have the Reca. PM me your address - I'll post it to you to have a listen. BLQ1s were like Kans - couldn't live with em, couldn't live without em. I bought and sold 3 pairs of Kans. I have semi-omnis - Cube 1s. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 6, 2018 13:09:33 GMT
That’s really kind and I’d love to try it sometime, but I’m overseas right now and my decks and vinyl are with a mate in the UK. If I do get a chance to try it in the future, or attend one of your bake offs, I’d really like that. I’m a Nothern lad so any time I spend in Britain in future will likely be around Tyneside, Durham or Northumberland. It’s still very dear to me, especially the coastline.
It’s 34 degrees here today and I was just thinking how nice it would be to be sat somewhere on the Northumberland coast, enjoying some cooler weather. Then I saw it’s baking hot in Britain too. 32 degrees in some places.
I really get what you mean with Kans. You have to accept lots of thorns to appreciate the rose. I love Cubes. More people need to hear them because you simply can’t get an idea of what they do until you try them.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 6, 2018 14:44:51 GMT
hard to find fatigue free kit dsjr imho..one of the reasons i like them..maybe it's an age thing..probably is tbh..as a youngster i liked me music much more in ya face Insightful if I may say. I’m coming to the same conclusion. I’m just not looking for a system to get the blood racing they way I used to. For a while I kept buying the thrill ride stuff amd in my head I still thought of myself as the person who liked a more in your face sound. I’m moving increasingly towards a more forgiving listen. I still like pace and rhythm, but there are products that can scratch that itch without making you want to run for cover. My first Audion Sterling (the MK1) was such a product, and so is the Sonneteer. I dunno if you’ve ever tried upward firing speakers, Rudi, but I think they might suit you, by definition the music isn’t no longer in your face and it is telling. Of course you’re happy with what you have so none of that really matters. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2018 14:52:07 GMT
Andrew, Do someday give the modern Exposure a go. More smoother sounding than the vintage incarnation. Without sacrificing the timing.
S.
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Post by macca on Jul 6, 2018 15:59:09 GMT
From the bits I’ve seen, you seem to have had some interesting things, Paul. I always expected to try a pair of British Loudspeakers BLQ 1 or BLQ2. It never happened and I’m sad at that. They looked genuinely interesting. I doubt our paths will ever cross now because I’m so heavily into semi and full omni speakers. My wife loves Elas though and I am still a little fond of them myself. I have been outbid on a Reson Reca a couple of times. I was curious to see if it differed. I expected to to be better than the standard Goldrings. I bought and sold 3 pairs of Kans. Holy Mother of God. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 6, 2018 16:06:41 GMT
Yeah, I know These people should have bought NS10's instead (the scourge of studios worldwide for decades). At least they'd have had a little more bass to go with the projected mids |
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 6, 2018 16:18:19 GMT
I bought and sold 3 pairs of Kans. Holy Mother of God. The Urban Dictionary definition of Holy Mother of God is: When you witness a naked Vietnamese man in a shower with his niece biting off his pubic hairs.I'd like to think that you had that in mind...  |
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Post by macca on Jul 6, 2018 16:44:36 GMT
Do you know, I did? What are the odds?
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Post by macca on Jul 6, 2018 16:45:58 GMT
Yeah, I know These people should have bought NS10's instead (the scourge of studios worldwide for decades). At least they'd have had a little more bass to go with the projected mids Deffo a better bet, providing you used the correct brand of tissue to put over the tweeter of course  |
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 6, 2018 16:46:36 GMT
Odds on...
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Post by dsjr on Jul 6, 2018 17:59:51 GMT
They modified them so you didn't need the tissue later on
We had later NS10's in the NW6 shop and on a shelf they sounded fine if a little lively. I don't think anyone took them into the dem room to hear them 'properly' though. Compared to Kans, that would never do!
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Post by macca on Jul 6, 2018 19:45:16 GMT
With the NS10 the story I was told goes that some flash London studio had a big name in and he wasn't happy until he heard the mix on some 'normal' speakers like a punter would have. So they give the tea boy a couple of hundred quid and send him off down to Tottenham Court Road to get some 'normal' speakers. Of course in those days he was overwhelmed with choice and he can't take all day about it or he'll get a bollocking. He likes the look of the white bass drivers on the NS10, buys them, and a legend is born.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 6, 2018 19:58:38 GMT
With the NS10 the story I was told goes that some flash London studio had a big name in and he wasn't happy until he heard the mix on some 'normal' speakers like a punter would have. So they give the tea boy a couple of hundred quid and send him off down to Tottenham Court Road to get some 'normal' speakers. Of course in those days he was overwhelmed with choice and he can't take all day about it or he'll get a bollocking. He likes the look of the white bass drivers on the NS10, buys them, and a legend is born. |
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Post by macca on Jul 6, 2018 20:33:14 GMT
So he reckons it was someone in Tokyo? Both stories could be true. I heard mine off a bloke who was big pals with David Geffen, but that's not really any guarantee I suppose.
In the old days they mixed on 15 inch Tannoy Dual Concentrics or JBLs. None of this small speaker nonsense. If you didn't have them at home , tough luck.
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Post by pauld on Jul 7, 2018 20:23:59 GMT
Rega Kyle Loudspeakers, sounded a bit like someone scratching their fingernails down a blackboard, utter shite of the highest order!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 20:37:52 GMT
Rega Kyle Loudspeakers, sounded a bit like someone scratching their fingernails down a blackboard, utter Sh#t of the highest order! Best keep away from most Royds then! S. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 7:15:44 GMT
Royd Edens sound very nice I found them better than my Sapphires.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 7:34:57 GMT
most modern speakers i have heard have been junk..flashy boxes with 20 quid drivers...
you want good speakers you have to buy vintage imho..my favourite speaker ever were acoustic energy ae109's..for 300 quid they were unbeatble
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 8, 2018 8:30:24 GMT
If we are talking crap speakers, I had a pair of B&W 603 S2 which resided in my system for less than a day.
I had never heard such an awful disjointed sound from any speaker as I heard from these things. Sounded like all the drivers had an argument and were no longer talking to each other. They went straight back on to ebay the same day.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 8:38:54 GMT
yep some of those speakers are just aweful
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Post by dsjr on Jul 8, 2018 9:48:03 GMT
The B&W 600 mk1's were less abrasive and I have no idea what went wrong with the 2 and 3 series - filling removing and they don'tseem to get better with age as the mk1's do... Ah Rudi - AE109's... 5db step down from mid to tweeter - and I mean a big 'step.' TDL copied this with the RTLmk2 models (SE) and we disliked them, despite the far superior finish over the originals. Some modern Kudos speakers have a 5db step UP in response to make modern Naims sound 'detailed' - ugh! The TDL's could be adjusted for a more neutral sound, but not our job as retailers to do this really. From a different perspective, we traded in some AE109's and I couldn't believe how awful they sounded - WTF 5* speakers too... When I sold active Linn stuff, the tweeter setting was often easily reachable for level adjustments and I think you'd have found it interesting when adjusting this. More than a step or two away from 'nominal' and the sound became odder than it usually was ( ) and with an added coarseness. There definitely seemed an optimum setting where the sound gelled without muffling or screeching... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 19:23:15 GMT
Probably not really a POS but my all time let down was the Alphasson HRS100 Tonearm.
All the legend that surrounds it and talk of the sweetest sound, was just that, talk.
It was muddy, bass was bloated and the VDH cable they put in it was absolutely Sh#t. When I put it up for sale, a guy who claim to have helped design it enquired about it. He was horrified that I'd cut the VDH out of it and replaced it with Klotz MC5000. Not the best cable in the world but it was a damn sight better than the VDH stuff.
I got £100 for the VDH MCS cable and I sold the arm for what I paid so didn't lose out.
It was suggested the arm may have needed some work but I had it checked over and a clean bill of health was given. Truth is, The Alphasson was shite. I hated it and I'd sold on my Mission 774 original tonearm which in truth was far superior. I've never bought a piece of hifi on reputation alone since then and I've never kept a piece because it was more expensive since then either.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 15, 2018 19:39:00 GMT
Probably not really a POS but my all time let down was the Alphasson HRS100 Tonearm. All the legend that surrounds it and talk of the sweetest sound, was just that, talk. It was muddy, bass was bloated and the VDH cable they put in it was absolutely Sh#t. When I put it up for sale, a guy who claim to have helped design it enquired about it. He was horrified that I'd cut the VDH out of it and replaced it with Klotz MC5000. Not the best cable in the world but it was a damn sight better than the VDH stuff. He paid me £100 for the VDH MCS cable and I sold the arm for hat I paid so didn't lose out. It was suggested the arm may have needed some work but I had it checked over and a clean bill of health was given. Truth is, The Alphasson was shite. I hated it and I'd sold on my Mission 774 original tonearm which in truth was far superior. I've never bought a piece of hifi on reputation alone since then. WHAT???
Muddy and bloated bass is not what this arm is renowned for and neither my memories of it. On the matching Sonata, the bass was clean and tidy, the Colloms tests showed it has little tono high frequency resonances which most other arms exhibit, so maybe the lively edge that say an Ittok had would be missing. One of the best Decca sounds I had was with one on a Gyrodeck of all things fitted with an HR100S. The issue was a cueing device not damped and I bottled ot of taking the arm off to dismantle the cueing system as I was terrified of messing up the sound, which was pin-sharp, clear as a bell and with rock solid imaging not known for the Gyro in my experience...
The Alphason isn't shite IMO, but misused or mismatched, I suspect it might be perceived as lacking life - and the SP10 itself isn't known for being immediately 'musical' as such either (I've always loved it, but still, ask Marco as he once told me he much preferred his pimped Technics 1210. The AT arm you use would have been judged greatly inferior due to resonances, but maybe it's these that are livening things up for you. I have the Choice review here and the 1010 is a resonant model right through the range although to be fair to it, it's evenly distributed from mid to top where the HR100S is a 'quiet' arm like the best SME's and Rega RB's - polarised opinion on these... Not sure what the mule deck was in the review, I'll have to look it up when I have more time. I only remember the low mass AT arm version as it was more suited to the Sonis Blue and other similar until the MC-invasion in 78 or so, which took attention away from MM goodies of the period such as the 881S, M20FL Super or AT20SLa and so on...
Hmmm...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 15, 2018 20:23:50 GMT
I’ve had a few Alphason S shaped arms, with and without the MCS wiring. I like them a lot for detai, clarity and finesse, but they were always reputed to lack boogie.
I think they produce mixed results with different decks, tbh. My first one was fitted to my second Townshend Rock. My earlier Rock had used a Helius Scorpio followed by a brand new stock RB300 and I liked it a lot with both.
With my 2nd Rock, I bought a Xenon MCS and had very disappointing results. So I bought another new stock RB300.........Only to find the Alphason was a thousand times better! The gap in clarity was very large and it was several steps up. Maybe a new system didn’t suit the Rock. I never worked it out.
I’ve used them since on different decks. Some I have loved, others were just so, so. I think of them as “enigmatic”.
As for AE109s I’ve never heard them. I do however take little notice of frequency response because experience tells me it has nothing to do with whether or not I find a speaker enjoyable. It’s often quoted like it’s some dirty secret that means a speaker is no good, but the designer clearly made the speaker that way amd most of them make a living from doing it. Our ears aren’t linear and neither is any room. Both of these vary greatly, so until we replace the former with oscilloscopes and the latter with anechoic chambers, expect me to say “bollocks” to any attempt to jusdhe a speaker by its frequency response.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 22:20:29 GMT
Probably not really a POS but my all time let down was the Alphasson HRS100 Tonearm. All the legend that surrounds it and talk of the sweetest sound, was just that, talk. It was muddy, bass was bloated and the VDH cable they put in it was absolutely Sh#t. When I put it up for sale, a guy who claim to have helped design it enquired about it. He was horrified that I'd cut the VDH out of it and replaced it with Klotz MC5000. Not the best cable in the world but it was a damn sight better than the VDH stuff. He paid me £100 for the VDH MCS cable and I sold the arm for hat I paid so didn't lose out. It was suggested the arm may have needed some work but I had it checked over and a clean bill of health was given. Truth is, The Alphasson was shite. I hated it and I'd sold on my Mission 774 original tonearm which in truth was far superior. I've never bought a piece of hifi on reputation alone since then. WHAT???
Muddy and bloated bass is not what this arm is renowned for and neither my memories of it. On the matching Sonata, the bass was clean and tidy, the Colloms tests showed it has little tono high frequency resonances which most other arms exhibit, so maybe the lively edge that say an Ittok had would be missing. One of the best Decca sounds I had was with one on a Gyrodeck of all things fitted with an HR100S. The issue was a cueing device not damped and I bottled ot of taking the arm off to dismantle the cueing system as I was terrified of messing up the sound, which was pin-sharp, clear as a bell and with rock solid imaging not known for the Gyro in my experience...
The Alphason isn't shite IMO, but misused or mismatched, I suspect it might be perceived as lacking life - and the SP10 itself isn't known for being immediately 'musical' as such either (I've always loved it, but still, ask Marco as he once told me he much preferred his pimped Technics 1210. The AT arm you use would have been judged greatly inferior due to resonances, but maybe it's these that are livening things up for you. I have the Choice review here and the 1010 is a resonant model right through the range although to be fair to it, it's evenly distributed from mid to top where the HR100S is a 'quiet' arm like the best SME's and Rega RB's - polarised opinion on these... Not sure what the mule deck was in the review, I'll have to look it up when I have more time. I only remember the low mass AT arm version as it was more suited to the Sonis Blue and other similar until the MC-invasion in 78 or so, which took attention away from MM goodies of the period such as the 881S, M20FL Super or AT20SLa and so on...
Hmmm...
The AT1010 arm I use is only an AT1010 in name. It's been reworked massively and really, only the arm tube and exterior parts are original. This one has a completely new bearing housing, hybrid ceramic bearings in the horizontal and vertical planes, new bearing pillar and all this has been engineered to a Nth of a degree by an expert. It also uses materials that are completely superior to the original. It's a stunning arm, one I am hoping to compare to a SME V very soon. It's not really an AT1010, it's basically a donor arm for the good stuff to go in. The Alphasson never went on the SP10, it was on my Toshiba SR-370. A direct drive with composite plynth. The Alphasson didn't lack life or boogie, but it was muddy, and smeared. Bass was not tidy, infact, it was lacking in definition and timbre. I used the MODDED AT1010 on the Toshy too and I'm afraid the clarity of the AT1010 smashed the Alphasson to next week. It wasn't even close. Whenever I tell people how poor I felt the Alphasson was, I get the same response, misuse or mismatched with other kit etc. I don't see how it could be misuse? The cartridge was perfectly aligned, the setup was meticulously done, the condition of the arm was excellent, the Turntable performed well, resonance wasn't an issue, you could smack the TT shelf and hardly hear anything through the needle. It was an excellent turntable. Mismatched? Possibly, sometimes things don't gel but I can only say I never tried it on a belt drive TT. I used 4 arms on the Toshiba before I sold it. A Mission 774, ALPHASSON, SME 3009 and the Phonomac AT1010. The AT1010 was far and away the best arm,followed by the mission, the SME and then the Alphasson. Just to put that in context, I dislike the SME too. As for TTs not being "musical" I hate that idea, that a turntable could somehow be something other than a machine. It's role is to rotate at a speed of predetermined choice, be stable, have the lowest possible resonance, WOW & Flutter and to be reliable. I dont want the TT to be "Musical" I want it to be as unobtrusive as possible and have the least interference with the records playing surface as possible. The SP10 is perfect at it and the only other TT that comes close to being as good (ylthat I've heard) is the VPI Scout. Those are the only two I've heard that achieve the goal. To have no impact on the sound and disappear when a record plays. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 16, 2018 5:52:40 GMT
I have no idea about sample variation/consistency with the Alphason arms, but I do know Mike Knowles apparently showed Roy Gandy of Rega how to cast one piece arm tubes. I have also heard that castings can give differing results and the Regas used to suffer from this. Maybe the Alphason arms did too. I dunno, but I’m a great believer in the listeners ears being king. So if the arm was crap for Oliver than that’s all that matters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 6:01:51 GMT
best sounding turntable arm cart i ever heard on recording was a pink fish needle drop thread a few years back.
i spent many hours listening to many uploads.
many of them were just shite.
sme model 30 wernt any good.
one deck stood out and many aggreed it was the best sounding
technics sp10
granite plynth
12 inch sme series v silver wired
some koetsu cartridge i cant remember the name of
many sme owners and linn owners sold their decks because of that thread lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 7:01:04 GMT
I have no idea about sample variation/consistency with the Alphason arms, but I do know Mike Knowles apparently showed Roy Gandy of Rega how to cast one piece arm tubes. I have also heard that castings can give differing results and the Regas used to suffer from this. Maybe the Alphason arms did too. I dunno, but I’m a great believer in the listeners ears being king. So if the arm was crap for Oliver than that’s all that matters. I'm not saying ALL Alphassons are crap, just that it was the biggest disappointment I have experienced in hifi. |
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). As for what speakers I'd suggest though... I did love the JBL 4367's I heard - so 'unforced' in sound... and it brought back many memories.
