Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 18, 2021 21:20:30 GMT
So, R2R is on the rise and from the far east pops up the Musician Pegasus. A lookalike for the Denafrips DACs, there has been a talk of it being from the same factory. Something the Chinese seem to do quite regularly.
With one of these now on the door step with Alan, i got the opportunity to get a little listen when i dropped some bit around there yesterday.
The MP looks bang tidy in the rack. Has a solid look and visually is quite pleasing. Some may say it's a plain Jane, but i like it.
Obviously in the past, having a listen in Alan's system was pretty much second nature to me. However there have been a few changes to Al's system, as there have in mine. We really needed far more time to do any serious listening or adjudicating on a full blown conclusion.
What i did want to do though was offer up a little precursor to what i hope will become a full blown review. Should i be able to tease it from Alan for a few days.
When i heard the first track (forgot the name) it was evident that this little piggy had gone to town on the Topping D90 (from what i remembered of it)
Alans D90 had sounded pretty good, but the dynamics were missing and it was all a bit one pace for me. The MP was polar opposite. Energetic, dynamic and vigorous, i was impressed immediately.
We put on a track i know really well, Leo Kottke - From Spink to Correctionville (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShF7yjU7Jqk)
This is a great track to test for tone and realism, and seeing as he is picking and using a slide there is a lot of transient information, leading edges and decay. It's a tougher test than you may think.
The MP passed this audition with consummate ease. The guitar had oodles of tone. Realistically balanced and demonstrated texture and dimensionality. The soundstage was rather vivid with A 3D quality that lit up the ESL's, The music flowed with ease and the changes in rhythm and timing were easy to follow. I have only really experienced with the Soekris, and in stock form, the MP hit the Soekris for six. HOWZAAATT!
The transients were floating in the ether and decay was easily audible via the sustain on the notes or the resonance in the guitars body. Leading edges were quick, clean and the discharge of the force used to play the note was also easily audible. That's a hard one to explain but the note is loudest at it's start and thats what we heard. sensational stuff.
Yup, with both DAC's in stock form, i would not hesitate to recommend the MP on this form. That is also after one track.
The MP exhibited a plethora of similarities to the Soekris with the way it made music. It was clean and fast, fluid and dynamic too. It was a joy to hear another DAC hit the same sort of endorphin inducing buttons that the Soekris does.
The Soekris now is a different animal and will be different again is a couple of weeks when i install a heavily modified Walt Jung PCB (Thanks Tony) on the 12v side, and a new and rather well made 5v one from a supplier in China. That will undergo some Bigbottle mods before use, but i am expecting a significant improvement in noise floor from both and thus a very worthwhile task to carry out.
This will then set up a Soekris Vs Musician Pegasus bakeoff. A battle of 2 DACs that cost under £1k. Even with mods.
My system will host the contest and a full and thorough write up will be done to try and provide an insight into a DAC using a topology i consider to be top of the tree for what matters most.....sound quality.
I don't think i have been this eager to hear ANYTHING digital in my system. Cannot wait for this.
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Post by stevew on Feb 18, 2021 22:35:19 GMT
.. and that’s also great news for Alan. There was some negative pr washing about, so it’s good to hear it wasn’t much of a gamble in the end, The Ares had got me curious about the rest of the Denafrips range.. but need to be compared. Bring it ( bake offs), vaccines and haircuts ...on.
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Post by electronumpty on Feb 18, 2021 22:56:50 GMT
Sounds great , can't wait!
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Post by firebottle on Feb 19, 2021 8:44:43 GMT
I knew you were impressed with it, you didn't say anything. Just a point, the Soekris is over 1K new.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 9:26:32 GMT
I knew you were impressed with it, you didn't say anything. Just a point, the Soekris is over 1K new. Yes, i didn't say anything but i was digesting what i had heard on a system that is a little alien to me these days (thanks Covid ) and as you know i did have to shoot off to work, but had i been able to have a chat with you for longer, i would have said how impressive it sounded. When it has the requisite hours through it, we will get a bake off sorted and we'll give them bot a thorough wourkout. I am genuinly enthused. Oh, the Soekris is EUR750.00, which is about £650+VAT @ 20% = Circa £780.00 Then delivery, so very close to the same price.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 18:16:14 GMT
I knew you were impressed with it, you didn't say anything. Just a point, the Soekris is over 1K new. Yes, i didn't say anything but i was digesting what i had heard on a system that is a little alien to me these days (thanks Covid ) and as you know i did have to shoot off to work, but had i been able to have a chat with you for longer, i would have said how impressive it sounded. When it has the requisite hours through it, we will get a bake off sorted and we'll give them bot a thorough wourkout. I am genuinly enthused. Oh, the Soekris is EUR750.00, which is about £650+VAT @ 20% = Circa £780.00 Then delivery, so very close to the same price. And the PSU upgrade.... Audiophonics are selling the Pegasus at €1249. Seems a bit expensive to me?
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Post by firebottle on Feb 19, 2021 18:20:48 GMT
Yes it is, that's £200 more than I spent.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 19:08:16 GMT
Yes, i didn't say anything but i was digesting what i had heard on a system that is a little alien to me these days (thanks Covid ) and as you know i did have to shoot off to work, but had i been able to have a chat with you for longer, i would have said how impressive it sounded. When it has the requisite hours through it, we will get a bake off sorted and we'll give them bot a thorough wourkout. I am genuinly enthused. Oh, the Soekris is EUR750.00, which is about £650+VAT @ 20% = Circa £780.00 Then delivery, so very close to the same price. And the PSU upgrade.... Audiophonics are selling the Pegasus at €1249. Seems a bit expensive to me? Yes, PSU upgrade. About £100
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Post by antonio on Mar 4, 2021 0:52:46 GMT
I saw a review on YT, the guy said it was a great dac but the tonality was off compared to a Gustard A22. Any reaction to this?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2021 8:02:48 GMT
I saw a review on YT, the guy said it was a great dac but the tonality was off compared to a Gustard A22. Any reaction to this? Not heard a Gustard A22, so not from me but there wasn't anything glaringly obvious from what I heard. Measurements are obviously not as linear as the Gustard, as no R2Rs will be but still good enough to not show anything of concern: Musician Pegasus Gustard:
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Post by sq225917 on Mar 4, 2021 19:12:59 GMT
Linearity, the least useful possible measure of how a dac sounds...lol.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 4, 2021 19:22:27 GMT
Linearity, the least useful possible measure of how a dac sounds...lol. Hahaha 😂
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Post by firebottle on Mar 16, 2021 7:46:40 GMT
OK have been living with this Dac for a while now, playing for many hours per day so over 150 hours for sure.
The bass has really opened up, it is soooo deep and clean. This Dac is the open window that everyone craves for, digital has never sounded so good. Previously for best sound I would have put a record on but now it's fire up the digital.
The depth of detail and separation of complex passages is just so good. Listening to the CD collection is like listening to new music, the 16/44.1 experience is mindblowing.
Bake off coming very soon..
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Post by macca on Mar 16, 2021 8:13:23 GMT
we all used to laugh about the 'Pure, Perfect Sound Forever' tagline but it turned out they weren't kidding.
How soon can a bake off happen? I can bring Soncoz SGD1 and Topping E30.
Audiolab 6000CDT and the E30 = £500 combo brand new and is beyond a joke. Especially like you say, the sheer clarity and the bass depth and control. Be fascinating to hear what the differences are - if any - with other DACs.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 16, 2021 9:05:36 GMT
we all used to laugh about the 'Pure, Perfect Sound Forever' tagline but it turned out they weren't kidding. How soon can a bake off happen? I can bring Soncoz SGD1 and Topping E30. Audiolab 6000CDT and the E30 = £500 combo brand new and is beyond a joke. Especially like you say, the sheer clarity and the bass depth and control. Be fascinating to hear what the differences are - if any - with other DACs. As soon as we can, Macca. July was touted as the first month of lockdown release, I think.
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Post by stevew on Mar 16, 2021 11:44:06 GMT
I can bring the Ares 2 Might even have something else as well by then😎
July sounds good.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 16, 2021 13:26:59 GMT
I can bring the Ares 2 Might even have something else as well by then😎 July sounds good. Yep.....I'm up for that
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Post by colin123 on Aug 20, 2021 13:58:27 GMT
This thread has gone quiet. I was intrigued to hear your findings.
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Post by stevew on Aug 20, 2021 20:51:35 GMT
This thread has gone quiet. I was intrigued to hear your findings. Well..from my perspective the summer hasn’t developed into the freedom of traveling and contact that I’d hoped. My wife is still considered vulnerable so we have simply doubled down on remaining careful. Wish it wasn’t so, and am looking forward to mixing with people at some point.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 20, 2021 21:20:38 GMT
This thread has gone quiet. I was intrigued to hear your findings. As Steve said, it just hasn't been possible for a number of reasons. The Pegasus has also been undergoing some tinkering, so any comparison seems a little "inflated" now. We'll do it though. Oh, welcome BTW 🤣
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Post by mrian on Dec 9, 2021 21:46:28 GMT
Does the pegasus encourage you to tap your foot? Some may say how is it for PRaT?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 9, 2021 22:37:38 GMT
Does the pegasus encourage you to tap your foot? Some may say how is it for PRaT? Not for me. In truth, I found the Pegasus to be a little warm/slow sounding. It lacked resolution and transparency in comparison to the Soekris 1421, and was quite easily beaten by it. The Pegasus was veiled in truth. Obviously so Only my opinion, but you asked! If you're looking for PRaT, you would be wise to pick up a new Soekris 2541 or a very early 1421. They are the only R-2R DACs I've heard that have managed to sufficient levels of speed! Oh, that and the Holo Spring 3 did a very decent effort, but did sound a little more laid back. The Soekris has me tapping my feet, bopping my head and playing air guitar like a mad man.....but I can also be totally fixated and moved by the delicacies in the playing of a solo cellist... It's incredibly versatile and is, in my humble opinion, one if the best kept secrets in Digital audio. It's not aggressive, it's not grainy and it's certainly not synthetic sounding, but it's fast, clean and delivers some epic dynamics. Ringing endorsement from me.
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Post by mrian on Dec 10, 2021 6:19:27 GMT
Suspected that may be the case, i wonder what the pending 1221 will be like, then again i have run out of rca inputs so really need xlr
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 10, 2021 6:38:15 GMT
Suspected that may be the case, i wonder what the pending 1221 will be like, then again i have run out of rca inputs so really need xlr The 2541 has Balanced out. The 1421 doesn't.
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Post by macca on Dec 10, 2021 8:34:14 GMT
Does the pegasus encourage you to tap your foot? Some may say how is it for PRaT? The DAC has nothing to do with that. PRAT is a function of the loudspeakers, their interaction with the room, and the amplifier's interaction with the loudspeakers. Loudspeakers with deep bass but not properly driven by the amp - no PRAT Room making loudspeakers boomy due to overly slow decay of bass frequencies- no PRAT Crap loudspeakers - no PRAT. Avoid those issues and all DACs will have PRAT - assuming the recording has it to begin with.
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optical
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Post by optical on Dec 10, 2021 10:20:33 GMT
Does the pegasus encourage you to tap your foot? Some may say how is it for PRaT? The DAC has nothing to do with that. PRAT is a function of the loudspeakers, their interaction with the room, and the amplifier's interaction with the loudspeakers. Loudspeakers with deep bass but not properly driven by the amp - no PRAT Room making loudspeakers boomy due to overly slow decay of bass frequencies- no PRAT Crap loudspeakers - no PRAT. Avoid those issues and all DACs will have PRAT - assuming the recording has it to begin with. Many components can affect PRaT in my experience. If you're referring to actual technicalities of 'timing' (sound) and therefore reflections caused by the loudspeaker and room interactions then yes, but whilst true to an extent, jamming a few crappy interconnects or speaker cables into your system can also completely remove PRaT. Sound may become 'sluggish, veiled' etc. Just in my experience and opinion of course . . . .
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Post by misterc on Dec 10, 2021 10:52:18 GMT
Dac can and do have various flovours no question as do amps, where your system has the ability to indentify these traits thats another question.
Pretty much all of the latest 'new style R2R dac's are more laid back and major on the soundstaging, tonal aspects and detail. Whippet Thrashing and Toe Tapping doesn't really come into. They are NOT Rythymically centric at all. Some wold consider them flat compared to a good Delta sigma dac.
They are exceptions but not at this price point imho
Some of the older dacs are far more competant in the areas
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Post by macca on Dec 10, 2021 11:18:50 GMT
Dac can and do have various flovours no question as do amps, where your system has the ability to indentify these traits thats another question. Pretty much all of the latest 'new style R2R dac's are more laid back and major on the soundstaging, tonal aspects and detail. Whippet Thrashing and Toe Tapping doesn't really come into. They are NOT Rythymically centric at all. Some wold consider them flat compared to a good Delta sigma dac. They are exceptions but not at this price point imho Some of the older dacs are far more competant in the areas well my system is on a par with what they have in studios IME (and I've actually had a former studio engineer say that to me) so we can forget the 'system not resolving enough' excuse. Of course there's always the 'Listening for the wrong things' or the 'You must be deaf' options No issues with PRAT when we had Ollie's Soekris DAC in, no issues with anything really. heard the Pegasus DAC at Alan's, can't say I noticed that it was lacking in anything either. I'd like to know what is happening technically in a DAC to make it less 'rhythmically centric'.
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Post by misterc on Dec 10, 2021 11:49:08 GMT
I do think there is magic formula whch dictates which one variable delivers that toe tapping experinace, and neither do you need Audio Note A+E's either for that sole exclusive. Currently I have around 80 dacs now (and I sold three this week, certificable I know lol)
Genuinelly I feel around 50% of the dac's I have generate a far more rhythmic drive than others, dcs for examples has a more traditional flat line response, the older Audionet CD players can bounce and drive along like naim. The Soekris dac's has more speed and drive than most of the current crop of dacs, but again personal tastes are a personal thing
The Rockna Wavedream dac can deliver rocket propelled drive to the music when required, although the pipe and slipper sqaud would be 'Oh, thats far to fast and relentless music doesn't sound like that!' humm lol thats a personal thing.
Happy to demonstrate that at next years meeting
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 12, 2021 18:03:07 GMT
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