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Post by robbiegong on Mar 15, 2021 17:38:47 GMT
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 15, 2021 18:40:34 GMT
There are issues here that are only apparent by their omission. He makes absolutely no attempt to explain *how* his system allows him to try both MM and MC cartridges in the same setup. What is the partnering equipment? Did he use a SUT for the Hana ML? In my experience, it is VERY difficult to be entirely fair when comparing MC to MM carts. Every phonostage or vinyl setup will need some sort of MC gain device to make it work with a MM phonostage. This then changes things and it's no longer a 100 % fair comparison. As we know, there are a million ways to get this wrong, and only a few ways to get it right. I'd like to know a bit about what kit he used to do the evaluation in all honesty. Historically, i haven't liked carts with the Shibata stylus on the end of them, so this wouldn't be for me anyway. I heard jimbo modified 2M black and considering you could buy a 2M Black, send it to Killian for the FG stylus and internal upgrades for less cost....thats what i would do, because it was bloody tasty. |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 15, 2021 20:36:28 GMT
There are issues here that are only apparent by their omission. He makes absolutely no attempt to explain *how* his system allows him to try both MM and MC cartridges in the same setup. What is the partnering equipment? Did he use a SUT for the Hana ML? In my experience, it is VERY difficult to be entirely fair when comparing MC to MM carts. Every phonostage or vinyl setup will need some sort of MC gain device to make it work with a MM phonostage. This then changes things and it's no longer a 100 % fair comparison. As we know, there are a million ways to get this wrong, and only a few ways to get it right. I'd like to know a bit about what kit he used to do the evaluation in all honesty. Historically, i haven't liked carts with the Shibata stylus on the end of them, so this wouldn't be for me anyway. I heard jimbo modified 2M black and considering you could buy a 2M Black, send it to Killian for the FG stylus and internal upgrades for less cost....thats what i would do, because it was bloody tasty. Easy Oli !- lol. I lived with the stock Shibata 2MB on my, at the time, slightly modded 1210 and loved it. Havnt heard Jimbo's 2MB with the FGS re-tip but only expect it sounds great. Similarly, my Cadenza Black with stock Shibata sounded lovely and even more so now with full Kilian Bakker full treatment-FGS re-tip which digs even deeper. All said and done, I only expect the 2MB LVA will sound excellent as well, I have no doubts about that. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 15, 2021 20:57:09 GMT
There are issues here that are only apparent by their omission. He makes absolutely no attempt to explain *how* his system allows him to try both MM and MC cartridges in the same setup. What is the partnering equipment? Did he use a SUT for the Hana ML? In my experience, it is VERY difficult to be entirely fair when comparing MC to MM carts. Every phonostage or vinyl setup will need some sort of MC gain device to make it work with a MM phonostage. This then changes things and it's no longer a 100 % fair comparison. As we know, there are a million ways to get this wrong, and only a few ways to get it right. I'd like to know a bit about what kit he used to do the evaluation in all honesty. Historically, i haven't liked carts with the Shibata stylus on the end of them, so this wouldn't be for me anyway. I heard jimbo modified 2M black and considering you could buy a 2M Black, send it to Killian for the FG stylus and internal upgrades for less cost....thats what i would do, because it was bloody tasty. Easy Oli !- lol. I lived with the stock Shibata 2MB on my, at the time, slightly modded 1210 and loved it. Havnt heard Jimbo's 2MB with the FGS re-tip but only expect it sounds great. Similarly, my Cadenza Black with stock Shibata sounded lovely and even more so now with full Kilian Bakker full treatment-FGS re-tip which digs even deeper. All said and done, I only expect the 2MB LVA will sound excellent as well, I have no doubts about that. Ha! Sorry mate ...... I don't think that read quite as I meant, but you get the gist 🤣 |
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 15, 2021 21:09:05 GMT
Easy Oli !- lol. I lived with the stock Shibata 2MB on my, at the time, slightly modded 1210 and loved it. Havnt heard Jimbo's 2MB with the FGS re-tip but only expect it sounds great. Similarly, my Cadenza Black with stock Shibata sounded lovely and even more so now with Kilian Bakker full treatment-FGS re-tip which digs even deeper. All said and done, I only expect the 2MB LVA will sound excellent as well, I have no doubts about that. Ha! Sorry mate ...... I don't think that read quite as I meant, but you get the gist 🤣 Yeah I do  |
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 11, 2021 17:01:00 GMT
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 337
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Post by dt79 on Apr 11, 2021 17:17:32 GMT
I think this is a very odd way to sign off as well: “For the obstinate who stick with and prefer moving magnet to moving coil cartridges, the 2M Black LVB 250 makes the case as well if not better than any currently available MM at least that Ithat I know of.” |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 11, 2021 17:42:05 GMT
He is a big fan of Ortofon in general so it was a bit odd not to big up this version of the 2M Black, got a feeling he is not a particularly big fan of MM cartridges.
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 11, 2021 18:25:49 GMT
He is a big fan of Ortofon in general so it was a bit odd not to big up this version of the 2M Black, got a feeling he is not a particularly big fan of MM cartridges. Yeah, you've probably nailed it Jim. Probably carrying an unmovable bias and deep rooted belief that mm's are inferior. I remember listening to him once, might have been YouTube and I felt he was a bit 'very high-end / billy big b&ll&ck&' in regard to the various bits of kit he pointed out at his disposal and the eye watering cost of each piece he would inform and mention. |
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 11, 2021 18:32:37 GMT
I think this is a very odd way to sign off as well: “For the obstinate who stick with and prefer moving magnet to moving coil cartridges, the 2M Black LVB 250 makes the case as well if not better than any currently available MM at least that Ithat I know of.” Absolutely, I mean talk about out n out bias, just wrong. This is what you get from someone with closed mind-set, who clearly thinks he knows it all and knows best. Obviously far too high brow and privileged for his own good and ours. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 18:45:38 GMT
IMHO, he talks rubbish in the first paragraph.
It is not what I would call “sweet sounding”.
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 11, 2021 19:02:48 GMT
IMHO, he talks rubbish in the first paragraph. It is not what I would call “sweet sounding”. Exactly, unless he's using the 'word' sweet as a positive/street-slang, as in good/nice/great, but I very very much doubt he is actually. The 2MB is not sweet in presentation, that does not come to mind at all when you've spent time with this cart, other descriptive's consistently do, I've never seen sweet in all the years, until now. The guys clearly not got down to reviewing the thing with any real interest, focus or heart - shocking and disappointing in equal measure  |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 11, 2021 19:35:27 GMT
I agree with you there Rob. It will be interesting to see what others think of it when its reviewed on other sites.
Listening to a new 2M Black at the moment and I forgot just how good it is! Makes my FGS 2M sound a bit muddy and less focused. Mind you the FGS 2M was at the end of its life!
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 11, 2021 19:44:00 GMT
I agree with you there Rob. It will be interesting to see what others think of it when its reviewed on other sites. Listening to a new 2M Black at the moment and I forgot just how good it is! Makes my FGS 2M sound a bit muddy and less focused. Mind you the FGS 2M was at the end of its life! Have you worn that out already Jim? It's probably been in use longer than I realise.. |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 11, 2021 19:54:43 GMT
13 months and 1100hrs use. Started to notice tiny bit of distortion creeping in so now retired. Good job I had a new 2M waiting in the wings. In fact I have another part worn as well.
Cant have too many lol
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,063
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 11, 2021 20:08:37 GMT
13 months and 1100hrs use. Started to notice tiny bit of distortion creeping in so now retired. Good job I had a new 2M waiting in the wings. In fact I have another part worn as well. Cant have too many lol That's not a bad Return though! Yup, if you have a flavour you like, it's not a bad move to future proof it. A hardly used EMT cart popped up for sale the other day. ÂŁ1700......not cheap, bit I quite fancied it. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 20:15:24 GMT
IMHO, he talks rubbish in the first paragraph. It is not what I would call “sweet sounding”. Exactly, unless he's using the 'word' sweet as a positive/street-slang, as in good/nice/great, but I very very much doubt he is actually. The 2MB is not sweet in presentation, that does not come to mind at all when you've spent time with this cart, other descriptive's consistently do, I've never seen sweet in all the years, until now. The guys clearly not got down to reviewing the thing with any real interest, focus or heart - shocking and disappointing in equal measure I think he is obliged to give a good review to keep getting his free Ortofon cartridges.   |
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 11, 2021 20:24:22 GMT
Exactly, unless he's using the 'word' sweet as a positive/street-slang, as in good/nice/great, but I very very much doubt he is actually. The 2MB is not sweet in presentation, that does not come to mind at all when you've spent time with this cart, other descriptive's consistently do, I've never seen sweet in all the years, until now. The guys clearly not got down to reviewing the thing with any real interest, focus or heart - shocking and disappointing in equal measure I think he is obliged to give a good review to keep getting his free Ortofon cartridges. Yeah, he must have forgot in this case - lol  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 20:42:39 GMT
I would like to know how this compares to an MP500, or the VM760SLC, both are cheaper, and both feature boron canti.
My concern with the LVB would be replacement stylus assemblies.
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