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Post by brucew268 on Dec 12, 2020 18:01:38 GMT
This is one of the few forums I've seen where Neurochrome users and mentions occur regularly, and someone mentioned there was an actual dedicated thread that someone got fed up with and deleted (?).
I'm interested too in the 686 and considering a build but having trouble finding an actual description of its sound characteristics as opposed to mere superlatives.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 12, 2020 18:04:09 GMT
This is one of the few forums I've seen where Neurochrome users and mentions occur regularly, and someone mentioned there was an actual dedicated thread that someone got fed up with and deleted (?).
I'm interested too in the 686 and considering a build but having trouble finding an actual description of its sound characteristics as opposed to mere superlatives. Well, I don't recall a dedicated thread...but I do think we have many threads with comments as you say. I'll see if I can find my review of it. |
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Post by firebottle on Dec 12, 2020 18:46:07 GMT
The reason that all descriptions are all superlatives is that it is the most transparent amplifier you will ever hear.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 12, 2020 20:18:28 GMT
Similarly the reason for lack of sound description is that it doesn't have one, a sound that is. Its just utterly transparent and will drive a nail through concrete.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 12, 2020 20:49:27 GMT
Similarly the reason for lack of sound description is that it doesn't have one, a sound that is. Its just utterly transparent and will drive a nail through concrete. Err it didn't when I heard it last!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 20:51:13 GMT
But was it not out of phase on 1 channel?
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Post by jimbo on Dec 12, 2020 20:54:37 GMT
But was it not out of phase on 1 channel? Indeed.
Previous to that last listen my Croft turned it into a tiny faint weedy gutless power amp |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 12, 2020 20:55:25 GMT
Dont worry its a good amp in the right company.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 12, 2020 21:16:51 GMT
Upon finding my original review of the 686, I then proceeded to render it totally useless, as the amp was indeed out of phase on one channel.
This of course has given a very unfortunate opportunity to have a little poke at its unblemished record of dethroning every single amplifier that has dated step in its path. Well, in my experience anyway.
That may be another superlative, but it's true none the less.
The 686 has no sound signature. It sounds neither Class AB, Class A, Class G, Class.....you get the idea.
Whatever you plug into the 686, is treated to an environment where it can be itself, play music how it was designed to and most importantly this is where the good is weeded out from the bad.
The 686.....it's a rather special amplifier. It leaves nowhere for the accompanying equipment to hide and if that equipment is not up to task, you will know. You'll blame the amplifier for making your accompanying equipment sound Sh#t. But, the 686 is not to blame.
Believe me....I went though it.
Now....it's totally in phase and coupled to the best Preamp I have owned. It's no longer got the best speakers I've owned to play with, bit they are certainly respectable.
Ignore this amp at your peril. Put a good preamp on it and good speakers, and marvel at the fluidity & transparency.
My 686, as it was set to me by someone who would know "would take £10k to better"
That was with a SMPS AND one channel out of phase.
Now, it's got a monster Torroid based PSU, it's in phase and i'd imagine the price of beating it may have gone up.
If you're looking for an amplifier to impart a sonic signature on your music, this ain't the one.
Buy a Croft 😉
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Post by jimbo on Dec 12, 2020 21:37:37 GMT
I agree if you don't want a sonic signature buy a 686. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 12, 2020 22:19:21 GMT
I agree if you don't want a sonic signature buy a 686. Haha, just teasing Jim. 🤣 |
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 12, 2020 23:40:37 GMT
It may just be my decision jitters, but sometimes people describe something as having 'no signature' and being 'neutral' when it is a little cool or thin tone or... OK I found your AOS review and posted some thoughts & questions which I'll paste here as well:
I am rather interested in this amp from all I've heard but need some clarifications
I've not listened to Krell except back in the early 90's where I found them impressive soncially, muscley control and resolving but not to my musical taste at all. I didn't want muscly control (90's Krell) but effortless control shown with ease and flow, impressing me by not wearing it on its sleeve. I don't know if the Krells were actually analytical but did not flow in the same way as the amps I liked even though they were detailed. So maybe Krell has moved on and my impressions are irrelevant to the current crop, I haven't heard, but the reference in a 686 review brings up bad memories.
**
Here are those statements that make it sound unforgiving of mediocre recording production where I won't like listening to half my CD's any more. Sometimes that means a bit analytical, impressive in a non-organic way, lacking the kind of depth and dimensionality that feels like living breathing musicians are in the room and enjoying the comraderie. Some amps are a bit thin in tone, called neutral but actually a little cool, etc. I want to make sure this amp isn't of that breed.
***
OK, here you seem to speak to some of that.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 12, 2020 23:52:07 GMT
It may just be my decision jitters, but sometimes people describe something as having 'no signature' and being 'neutral' when it is a little cool or thin tone or... OK I found your AOS review and posted some thoughts & questions which I'll paste here as well: I am rather interested in this amp from all I've heard but need some clarifications I've not listened to Krell except back in the early 90's where I found them impressive soncially, muscley control and resolving but not to my musical taste at all. I didn't want muscly control (90's Krell) but effortless control shown with ease and flow, impressing me by not wearing it on its sleeve. I don't know if the Krells were actually analytical but did not flow in the same way as the amps I liked even though they were detailed. So maybe Krell has moved on and my impressions are irrelevant to the current crop, I haven't heard, but the reference in a 686 review brings up bad memories. ** Here are those statements that make it sound unforgiving of mediocre recording production where I won't like listening to half my CD's any more. Sometimes that means a bit analytical, impressive in a non-organic way, lacking the kind of depth and dimensionality that feels like living breathing musicians are in the room and enjoying the comraderie. Some amps are a bit thin in tone, called neutral but actually a little cool, etc. I want to make sure this amp isn't of that breed. *** OK, here you seem to speak to some of that. That was a very early review, and a review of an (unknown) out of phase amp! The 686 isn't thin, it's isn't sterile...it's very organic and one of the most frequent comments I get, and one of the most recent was "it's like they are in the room" I'm not gonna try and convince you into buying one, as that's no good to either of us. What I mean by neutral & transparent is that it doesn't enter the picture as an influence. It's like it isn't there. The trouble with "hifi speak" is it rarely means the same thing to different people. So, I'll leave it at this: When I had the Krell, it left it's footprint on everything. It played everything the same, it was an iron first in a velvet glove but it was creamy and rich on everything. I always knew it was playing a part in what I heard. It made everything sound great, but the same. I wasn't entirely sure just how much so, until I got the 686. The 686 is the only amplifier (of this price) I have had that was/is completely invisible. This (IMO) let's the interplay between musicians really flow. The dynamic swing on this amplifier is as good as on any Yank muscle amp but it the delicate bits that show off just how nimble it can be. What I want is for my equipment to not be an audible part of the replay, and allow the music to take centre stage. If it imparts a signature on the sound, or If i know it's there and feel like I can hear its influence....it goes. No mercy. The 686 is still here and will be forever. I searched for months to find the right amplifier. I had 6 here at one point and the Krell won that shootout, but the 686 is in another realm altogether. I bought it without hearing one, based in part on the rave review I got from JohnG who said "I know you're looking for an amp. Simon has just put his Neurochrome amplifiers in the system at MCRU and it's taken the piss out of everything here" I spoke to Simon, and based on his and JohnGs words....I pulled the trigger. I am very grateful to those two. There hasn't been a single person who has heard it in my system that would call it thin, cold or uninvolving and I am Currently using Yamaha NS1000m's that are apparently thin, cold and devoid of bass. Absolute bollocks btw Hd a visitor on Wednesday..."You are getting some bass out of them.... superb!" The 686 has got a very human....natural sound. It's a bit of a shape shifter. If the recording is lean, the outcome is lean. If it's rich and textured, then that's what you get. They don't care what you play and don't care how loud either. Never run out of steam and never loses it composure. If i were you, in order to either confirm or dismiss the concerns, I'd try and get a listen to one. No one can tell you what will happen in your system or in your ears. You are welcome to pop in and have a listen here. |
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Post by antonio on Dec 13, 2020 1:34:11 GMT
The reason that all descriptions are all superlatives is that it is the most transparent amplifier you will ever hear. Mr Firebottle, that is a sweeping statement if ever I've heard one.  May I suggest, it is the most transparent amplifier in it's price range and most probably at 2 or 3 times it's cost. |
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Post by antonio on Dec 13, 2020 1:45:20 GMT
A good amplifier takes you past bad recordings, so you become engrossed in the music, and don't notice them. Not my words, but something I read or heard. You lads would be gobsmacked hearing Audionet, still the best amplifier make I've heard, and yes, I've heard amps costing way more.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 13, 2020 8:45:05 GMT
A good amplifier takes you past bad recordings, so you become engrossed in the music, and don't notice them. Not my words, but something I read or heard. You lads would be gobsmacked hearing Audionet, still the best amplifier make I've heard, and yes, I've heard amps costing way more. One may suggest you could be gobsmacked at the 686? Not heard an auduonet, but at £11k used, I would hope it would be 5x better than the 686! |
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Post by firebottle on Dec 13, 2020 9:14:46 GMT
The reason that all descriptions are all superlatives is that it is the most transparent amplifier you will ever hear. Mr Firebottle, that is a sweeping statement if ever I've heard one. May I suggest, it is the most transparent amplifier in it's price range and most probably at 2 or 3 times it's cost. Yes isn't it just! I stand by it, the Neurochrome has almost no distortion, the figures published by Tom don't lie. If you put a clean signal in you get a clean signal out, nothing messed up, no mush, no loss of low level detail, as Oli says it's like it's not there. brucew268 Where are you based? I have a 686 here that the owner is keen to get some opinions on. |
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 13, 2020 9:22:01 GMT
That was a very early review, and a review of an (unknown) out of phase amp! The 686 isn't thin, it's isn't sterile...it's very organic and one of the most frequent comments I get, and one of the most recent was "it's like they are in the room" I'm not gonna try and convince you into buying one, as that's no good to either of us. What I mean by neutral & transparent is that it doesn't enter the picture as an influence. It's like it isn't there. The trouble with "hifi speak" is it rarely means the same thing to different people. So, I'll leave it at this: When I had the Krell, it left it's footprint on everything. It played everything the same, it was an iron first in a velvet glove but it was creamy and rich on everything. I always knew it was playing a part in what I heard. It made everything sound great, but the same. I wasn't entirely sure just how much so, until I got the 686. The 686 is the only amplifier (of this price) I have had that was/is completely invisible. This (IMO) let's the interplay between musicians really flow. The dynamic swing on this amplifier is as good as on any Yank muscle amp but it the delicate bits that show off just how nimble it can be. What I want is for my equipment to not be an audible part of the replay, and allow the music to take centre stage. If it imparts a signature on the sound, or If i know it's there and feel like I can hear its influence....it goes. No mercy. The 686 is still here and will be forever. I searched for months to find the right amplifier. I had 6 here at one point and the Krell won that shootout, but the 686 is in another realm altogether. I bought it without hearing one, based in part on the rave review I got from JohnG who said "I know you're looking for an amp. Simon has just put his Neurochrome amplifiers in the system at MCRU and it's taken the piss out of everything here" I spoke to Simon, and based on his and JohnGs words....I pulled the trigger. I am very grateful to those two. There hasn't been a single person who has heard it in my system that would call it thin, cold or uninvolving and I am Currently using Yamaha NS1000m's that are apparently thin, cold and devoid of bass. Absolute bollocks btw Hd a visitor on Wednesday..."You are getting some bass out of them.... superb!" The 686 has got a very human....natural sound. It's a bit of a shape shifter. If the recording is lean, the outcome is lean. If it's rich and textured, then that's what you get. They don't care what you play and don't care how loud either. Never run out of steam and never loses it composure. If i were you, in order to either confirm or dismiss the concerns, I'd try and get a listen to one. No one can tell you what will happen in your system or in your ears. You are welcome to pop in and have a listen here. Thank you for the clarifications which is what I was after, not meaning to argue. The Modulus-686 does sound like where I need to go. ...Too bad I've missed Modushop's Black Friday offers and customs from Italy is likely to be a mess in January!
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Post by firebottle on Dec 13, 2020 9:25:59 GMT
I've pinched this bit from a review of an Audionet set-up:
'Information above 3.5kHz is delightfully fleshed out, with a startlingly faithful sense of size, space, and ambiance, and is astonishingly replete with detail, exhibiting almost photo-realistic definition. Rife with natural reverberant decay, the uppermost octave establishes that sense of graceful effortlessness, of unfettered extension, that creates the ethereal, near-magical perception of the air around instruments. When listening to ride cymbals with jazz or blues combos, or triangles within classical recordings, you are treated to clear and uncongested detail, with vivid, precise attack and distinct ambient decay. Trailing edges of events linger on for tens of seconds when the recording has captured that aspect of the performance.'
Why the reviewer chose 'above 3.5kHz' I don't know but every word applies equally to the Neurochrome.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,401
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 13, 2020 9:30:11 GMT
That was a very early review, and a review of an (unknown) out of phase amp! The 686 isn't thin, it's isn't sterile...it's very organic and one of the most frequent comments I get, and one of the most recent was "it's like they are in the room" I'm not gonna try and convince you into buying one, as that's no good to either of us. What I mean by neutral & transparent is that it doesn't enter the picture as an influence. It's like it isn't there. The trouble with "hifi speak" is it rarely means the same thing to different people. So, I'll leave it at this: When I had the Krell, it left it's footprint on everything. It played everything the same, it was an iron first in a velvet glove but it was creamy and rich on everything. I always knew it was playing a part in what I heard. It made everything sound great, but the same. I wasn't entirely sure just how much so, until I got the 686. The 686 is the only amplifier (of this price) I have had that was/is completely invisible. This (IMO) let's the interplay between musicians really flow. The dynamic swing on this amplifier is as good as on any Yank muscle amp but it the delicate bits that show off just how nimble it can be. What I want is for my equipment to not be an audible part of the replay, and allow the music to take centre stage. If it imparts a signature on the sound, or If i know it's there and feel like I can hear its influence....it goes. No mercy. The 686 is still here and will be forever. I searched for months to find the right amplifier. I had 6 here at one point and the Krell won that shootout, but the 686 is in another realm altogether. I bought it without hearing one, based in part on the rave review I got from JohnG who said "I know you're looking for an amp. Simon has just put his Neurochrome amplifiers in the system at MCRU and it's taken the piss out of everything here" I spoke to Simon, and based on his and JohnGs words....I pulled the trigger. I am very grateful to those two. There hasn't been a single person who has heard it in my system that would call it thin, cold or uninvolving and I am Currently using Yamaha NS1000m's that are apparently thin, cold and devoid of bass. Absolute bollocks btw Hd a visitor on Wednesday..."You are getting some bass out of them.... superb!" The 686 has got a very human....natural sound. It's a bit of a shape shifter. If the recording is lean, the outcome is lean. If it's rich and textured, then that's what you get. They don't care what you play and don't care how loud either. Never run out of steam and never loses it composure. If i were you, in order to either confirm or dismiss the concerns, I'd try and get a listen to one. No one can tell you what will happen in your system or in your ears. You are welcome to pop in and have a listen here. Thank you for the clarifications which is what I was after, not meaning to argue. The Modulus-686 does sound like where I need to go. ...Too bad I've missed Modushop's Black Friday offers and customs from Italy is likely to be a mess in January!
No, didn't think to you were arguing! I was just saying that my system was very different then and those opinions were formed with the amplifier out of phase. It's a different amp now as it's in phase and has a Torroid based PS. Yup, black Friday is over, but there is a discount code on Pink Fish Media. That may help a little |
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 13, 2020 9:30:38 GMT
Where are you based? I have a 686 here that the owner is keen to get some opinions on. Bradford, West Yorkshire so a bit of a drive but doable at some point. |
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 13, 2020 9:51:20 GMT
I've pinched this bit from a review of an Audionet set-up: 'Information above 3.5kHz is delightfully fleshed out, with a startlingly faithful sense of size, space, and ambiance, and is astonishingly replete with detail, exhibiting almost photo-realistic definition. Rife with natural reverberant decay, the uppermost octave establishes that sense of graceful effortlessness, of unfettered extension, that creates the ethereal, near-magical perception of the air around instruments. When listening to ride cymbals with jazz or blues combos, or triangles within classical recordings, you are treated to clear and uncongested detail, with vivid, precise attack and distinct ambient decay. Trailing edges of events linger on for tens of seconds when the recording has captured that aspect of the performance.' Why the reviewer chose 'above 3.5kHz' I don't know but every word applies equally to the Neurochrome. Quite a wordsmith there which some may call audioreviewer foo but he ticks the boxes, and if it can apply equally well to the 686... Yup, black Friday is over, but there is a discount code on Pink Fish Media. That may help a little Thanks for that signpost, a halfway decent 10%! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 12:33:06 GMT
That was a very early review, and a review of an (unknown) out of phase amp! The 686 isn't thin, it's isn't sterile...it's very organic and one of the most frequent comments I get, and one of the most recent was "it's like they are in the room" I'm not gonna try and convince you into buying one, as that's no good to either of us. What I mean by neutral & transparent is that it doesn't enter the picture as an influence. It's like it isn't there. The trouble with "hifi speak" is it rarely means the same thing to different people. So, I'll leave it at this: When I had the Krell, it left it's footprint on everything. It played everything the same, it was an iron first in a velvet glove but it was creamy and rich on everything. I always knew it was playing a part in what I heard. It made everything sound great, but the same. I wasn't entirely sure just how much so, until I got the 686. The 686 is the only amplifier (of this price) I have had that was/is completely invisible. This (IMO) let's the interplay between musicians really flow. The dynamic swing on this amplifier is as good as on any Yank muscle amp but it the delicate bits that show off just how nimble it can be. What I want is for my equipment to not be an audible part of the replay, and allow the music to take centre stage. If it imparts a signature on the sound, or If i know it's there and feel like I can hear its influence....it goes. No mercy. The 686 is still here and will be forever. I searched for months to find the right amplifier. I had 6 here at one point and the Krell won that shootout, but the 686 is in another realm altogether. I bought it without hearing one, based in part on the rave review I got from JohnG who said "I know you're looking for an amp. Simon has just put his Neurochrome amplifiers in the system at MCRU and it's taken the piss out of everything here" I spoke to Simon, and based on his and JohnGs words....I pulled the trigger. I am very grateful to those two. There hasn't been a single person who has heard it in my system that would call it thin, cold or uninvolving and I am Currently using Yamaha NS1000m's that are apparently thin, cold and devoid of bass. Absolute bollocks btw Hd a visitor on Wednesday..."You are getting some bass out of them.... superb!" The 686 has got a very human....natural sound. It's a bit of a shape shifter. If the recording is lean, the outcome is lean. If it's rich and textured, then that's what you get. They don't care what you play and don't care how loud either. Never run out of steam and never loses it composure. If i were you, in order to either confirm or dismiss the concerns, I'd try and get a listen to one. No one can tell you what will happen in your system or in your ears. You are welcome to pop in and have a listen here. Thank you for the clarifications which is what I was after, not meaning to argue. The Modulus-686 does sound like where I need to go. ...Too bad I've missed Modushop's Black Friday offers and customs from Italy is likely to be a mess in January!
The Black Friday deal was only on the case, not on the customisations. You saved a bit, but not as much as I would have liked. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 12:36:41 GMT
And keep in mind that the CAD files on the Neurochrome site are for the V1 board, and 19mm speaker binding post spacing.
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 13, 2020 14:01:39 GMT
Bruce I'm in Sheffield, you're welcome once corona rules allow. Mod86p bridged monos, ie 486s, yamaha ns1000m, digital and vinyl front end.
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Post by emmings on Dec 13, 2020 15:34:34 GMT
As a recent convert (Mod-86 monoblocks pruchased from@cageyh) I can say they are very good amps which just 'play music'.
These have replaced a Pass Labs Aleph 3 clone which I thought sounded good (and it did) but the Neurochromes have surpassed that.
Can't add anything that hasn't been said before - just confirming that they allow the music to flow and let you hear what it should really sound like.
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Post by antonio on Dec 14, 2020 1:25:13 GMT
A good amplifier takes you past bad recordings, so you become engrossed in the music, and don't notice them. Not my words, but something I read or heard. You lads would be gobsmacked hearing Audionet, still the best amplifier make I've heard, and yes, I've heard amps costing way more. One may suggest you could be gobsmacked at the 686? Not heard an auduonet, but at £11k used, I would hope it would be 5x better than the 686! If you are talking about the Audionet Watt, that is an intergrated, never heard one but I understand it is excellent. I was thinking more about this power amp, en.audionet.de/machines/amp-i-v2/ which was £6000 3 yrs ago, If you wanted to really push the boat out a pair of these en.audionet.de/machines/heisenberg/ wil set you back £70,000. I have said before, I would really like to hear the 686, I'm sure it's an great amp and one that would appeal to me. |
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Post by brucew268 on Dec 14, 2020 16:01:26 GMT
Too bad I've missed Modushop's Black Friday offers and customs from Italy is likely to be a mess in January!
The Black Friday deal was only on the case, not on the customisations. You saved a bit, but not as much as I would have liked. Yeah, I'm not too interested in customisations that are just holes cut in the back panel which I can do. Even a hole for a simple LED in the front panel is no big thing. But interesting lettering or CNC work like a a design or a stepped display window in a preamplifier's 10mm front panel... that might get my money for custom work. In the meantime I've run out of time to get traffos from Toroidy.pl before the probable chaos of Europe-UK shipping in January, so I'm no longer in a hurry. Bruce I'm in Sheffield, you're welcome once corona rules allow. Mod86p bridged monos, ie 486s, yamaha ns1000m, digital and vinyl front end. Thank you kindly, I may just do that. |
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Post by sq225917 on Dec 14, 2020 21:06:17 GMT
No worries just let me know
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May I suggest, it is the most transparent amplifier in it's price range and most probably at 2 or 3 times it's cost. 
