Bigbottle/AVALON - Customer Feedback

Feedback from Paul @ Reference Fidelity Components' DIY BB3:

Having wired and connected everything up, the acid test was in the listening.
Bearing in mind I've now fitted a closely matched pair of Teles for the PCC88's and a Tungsol 803s for the V2 position, the valves now ought to be sorted as none of these proved microphonic at all.

A 20 minute warm up and settling time and then straight into playing some LPs. I wasn't expecting a night and day improvement over the previous iteration, perhaps just a little quieter but I was surprised to find that it WAS what I can honestly describe as a night and day uplift. The combination of the right (and matched) valves ensuring equal channel balance and hopefully adhering to correct RIAA balance, also happened to be much quieter with no discernible heater noise or any noise at all with volume turned up higher than I'd ever listen to. Any semblance of transformer hum was gone...entirely gone. In fact before anything could be heard through the speakers at all, the volume was over 3/4 of the way round the dial where max safe listening levels are less than half way, so with vinyl, this would prove to be utterly silent in background noise so a big tick in the box.

Onto listening: Biggest changes here were in detail and channel separation. Yes, new output coupling caps were in place as well as the valve changes and the FET boards installed. Without knowing if the changes were a collective upgrade or down to one specific change I don't know as I don't have access to the circuit diagram to see how it's all interconnected, but what I can say is wow...that soundstage now goes from one wall to the other, way beyond the speakers. Because I use time aligned and phase correct speakers, the depth of the recorded space comes through with astonishing presence and clarity on live recordings, not multi-tracked close mic'd stuff.

So was it all worth it? Well, yes but with reservations. Part of me still says, (the head speaking) that it should be entirely possible to have a compact phonostage at less cost than commercial offerings because the circuit can easily be compactly packaged, this takes up a lot of real estate and there's no getting over that. the heart, however says that it has been a resounding success based purely on the end result. Whether its the euphonics of valves I am liking more than the flatness of many solid state offerings, I don't know. All I know is that this offers what many do not, an emotional connection with the music and where live recordings are concerned, in a system capable of revealing it, a real sense of presence. That to most of us I'd bet sums up what we want from our systems, surely?

Top marks to Oli for project managing to the degree that he has and with the enthusiasm that he has, and in particular to listening to feedback and acting on it. The last point has turned a modest design that does what it says on the tin into one frankly a cut above the rest, where "the rest" is perhaps many that exist out there to £2.5K in valve land. There are lots that run it close or beat it but few can be had under £2K. I would advise under that mark looking at one of the Trilogy phonostages for SS offerings or where valves are concerned, this one and only one other that I can honestly recommend...

This is where things get interesting as that "one other" in entry level valve offerings is the TRON Convergence but here I lay may cards on the table for honesty. Oli and Alan are not aware of this, so it should come as a pleasant surprise just how close the BB3 is: Mine isn't a standard TRON Convergence, but a special order one from Graham called the "TRON Signature" which is a much rarer beast and the only one currently that I know of in existence and a very much upgraded and re-worked Convergence. The TRON has a different presentation to the BB3 but is still a fair comparison. This is not, nor should it become a "shoot off" of one V's the other because that would be largely non constructive, subjective and miss the points I'm trying to make here so lets not get too distracted by that side of things. I am only throwing it in because I use two TT's and one uses the TRON.

It has, if anything, in Signature trim, even more detail and a pretty amazing depth of sound stage, but isn't perhaps quite as wide as the BB3. My original TRON Convergence to my ears was a little light on one channel in bass which initially was why it was sent back, and it was found that one of the valves was out of spec which had adversely affected RIAA below 1KHz by around 2dB which is significant. This was corrected and measured with new, matched valves but the whole thing was taken apart and converted with just about all components changed to shoe-horn in the "Signature" version. It now has very accurate RIAA (tested) but I cannot give away what in the circuit was changed, but safe to say it is most definitely up there with the best in this price group and what I like about it is it's neatly packaged into a compact enclosure too.

The BB3 is still well worth the effort because you can achieve stunning levels of performance, to my mind way better than the EAR 834 or even the latest Icon Audio PS2 as well as the PS3 Mk2, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is quite an achievement so well done Oli and Alan. It's really quite an extraordinary stage. It is still possible to package it into a compact case IF a toroid is used but for the best sound quality, a traditional E&I to my mind is the better route as long as you can get it far enough distant or well enough shielded from the PCB. For quietness it matches the TRON, no mean feat!

For those already started along the DIY route, I would most humbly present a case for going the whole hog on this build to get the potential from it. The difference between not doing so and actually investing the time and money and effort in doing so is quite staggering in terms of sound quality uplift. I hope that this has been an honest and fair description of my own "BB3 journey" but please take it as it is intended, just an honest opinion. Once more my congratulations to Oli and Alan, and to all you reading this who want the best valve stage in this price category, you do owe it to yourself to speak with Oli, and in fact to Graham, as each offer something pretty unique but undoubtedly very special and neither really can be bettered in terms of valve power unless you are prepared to spend an awful lot more. There's a big jump to the next best valve stages and that means upping budgets to between £2.5K and £5K or more. Below those levels I have not tried anything that really competes with either of these two.

As a final comment, I will throw in that I am happy for anyone to visit me and listen to either of these stage for themselves especially where it might be a little too far to visit either Oli or Graham. I stand to gain nothing from this, nor should I, but I operate an ethos of supporting UK small businesses so am happy to do my part, as one of those businesses because I passionately believe that the best hifi has "gone underground" in the Uk and you simply will not find these little gems on the shelves of major company outlets.

Oli, My BB3 is not going anywhere but staying in my system until I win the lottery! I hope that sums it up lol..😀

From "Mikeyb"

I own two, a Mark 1 and a Mark 3.

The Mark 1 is excellent and I'd be more than happy with it, but Oli convinced me that the Mark 3 was an improvement in the Mark 1.

I'd owned a Mark 2 version for a few months whilst the Mark 3 was being developed. It was built into my Mark 1 case and I kept the Mark 1 PCB in the cupboard in case I ever had the desire to rebuild it myself, yeah dream on, I've never soldered before

So, the Mark 3 design was ready, I asked Oli about it and he did me a deal to take my Mark 2 AND also the Mark 1 PCB, put the Mark 1 back into its original case and upgrade the Mark 2 to a 3 in a two case build to get the power transformer away from the phono PCB.

Hence the reason I now have both sitting here, my intention was to listen to them both and sell the Mark 1, advert for it will be up soon

Now, I've had more stages here than some will have heard as I've always struggled to get the sound I want.

So, here's some of the list that fell by the wayside in no particular order:

NVA Phono 2

Trigon Vanguard II

Whest 2

Ryan Sound Labs

Graham Slee Reflex

Graham Slee Revelation

Primare R32

Long Dog Audio MC

Firebottle Vivant

Trilogy 907

I've even tried going the SUT and Headamp route, I've tried built in phono stages in my TQ Claymore integrated, Denon PMA-850.

And as you can see I've tried SS and valve.

However after all that I think I've found the one that's a keeper. The Bigbottle Audio MK3 just sounds right to me, good tight bass, excellent midrange and the highs are crystal clear with no harshness. I'm using a Russian 6N2P-EV and two Matsushita 7DJ8 valves in it just now, ok those valves and the stage itself are new so some burn in might come yet, if not it won't matter, I'm loving it.

My system consists of Technics SP10 Mark II with Fidelity Research FR64fx arm and Hana ML Cartridge, Herron Audio VTSP-2a Pre amp, Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP Power amp, Tannoy Berkeley speakers upgraded with RFC external crossovers, Raspberry Pi with Allo Boss DAC, EWA LS-25 speaker cable.

From "Lurch"

Yesterday I also joined the BB3 club, and it spent its 1st couple of hours battling it out with my Tron Seven Ultimate, and even with new valves the BB3 has, knocked the TSU into next week. The TSU is a bloody good PS and majors on neutrality and detail particularly in the, mid and upper regions, however to my ears the BB3 won out on mid range texture & richness, also bass had real slam and texture. Yes there was a slight loss of shimmer to cymbals etc but with the valves only having a few hours on the clock, who cares.

Overall, even at this early stage I prefer the sound of the BB3, and am pretty sure the TSU will end up in the classifieds, along with my Brinkmann Bardo. Yep it looks like I'm changing tt in favour of the early Garrard 401 I bought on a whim a few weeks back. With the BB3 & 401I now, have the body and richness but with detail and nuance I've been looking for.

"Nils Lofgren - Keith don't go" sounds stunning, I've never heard a guitar sound so nuanced before. The BB3 seems to let you know how notes devolop and what and instruments made from 😊😊

The BB3 not only trounced an £8.4k Tron Seven Ultimate, it transformed the sound of my Axia S from a very good hifi cart into a wonderfully rich nuanced musical cart. A cart I hasten to add I was looking to move on if I kept the Bardo, as I felt it was to blame for me getting to close to the line between music and hifi. I'm now keeping the Bardo & Axia.

A few weeks later:

Well I've had the BB3 in my system for a couple of weeks now, and all I can say is WOW!!! The Tron Seven Ultimate (TSU) has spent 13.5 of the last 14 days impersonating a doorstop, let me explain:

A few weeks beforehand I had acquired an early (serial number 1205) Garrard 401 with SME 3009 s2 which I'd fitted with an A&R P77Mg and it was producing a wonderful rich though not as detailed sound as my Bardo/Conqueror/Axia combo via the TSU. A sound I much preferred that made me realise that I had moved too close to that line that exists between musicality and hifi. It was at this point I also realised I wasn't at all happy with my vinyl front end, what I needed was a sound profile halfway between the 401 & Bardo. I then changed arms on the 401, sticking the Conqueror & Axia on it and bingo, I had the sound I wanted. Richness, body AND Detail. At this point I was seriously considering selling the Bardo in favour of the 401.

Move on a few days, Bardo still on the floor and & 401 rehoused in a heavy plinth I'd been given instead of the hollow lightweight 60s plinth it came with, when the BB3 arrived. I did an a/B against the TSU for a couple of hours then decided the Bardo needed another chance given the sound signature the BB was giving out.

I put the Conqueror back on the Bardo and fired it all back up, and damn, there it was, the sound I was looking for.

The BB redeemed the Bardo, changing the decks sound signature to one with air, space, body, detail and richness. Bare in mind also that this is what the BB did with new valves and only a few hours on the clock. I did put the TSU back in but it only stayed in the system for 3 tracks before becoming an expensive doorstop.

Don't get me wrong the TSU is a fantastic phonostage, but the BB3 in my system and to my ears gives me the sound signature I've been chasing, though I didn't really know what I wanted until I heard it.
The BB3 is now fully beded in and sounding absolutely fantastic, better than it did initially, and I didn't think that was possible.
So when I get round to it the will be a newly serviced (by GT) 2018 SPEC, TSU in the classifieds.

"Mick"

Hi Oliver,

The BB3 has landed & WOW it is BEAUTIFUL.😉

The casework is brilliant & I have to take my hat off to you for the outstanding quality, it's truly STUNNING.

You have made my year Oliver, because this BB3 has blown me away. You are truly a CRAFTSMAN of the highest order!!!! 😉

A gobsmacked owner of a BB3.

Cheers,

Mick

A bit of feedback from "Alex S" over on PFM

Sorry this is another long post. Please skip to the final paragraph for a resume´.

Having bought Mike P’s Leak ST20 and been thrilled with the result, I decided to continue the valve path and look at the phono stage. I had £1K max so I started looking in the Classified’s for a Tron Convergence. What a surprise, there weren’t any. There was also the fact that I needed MM & MC in a single box. Given my luck with Mikes, I saw a Big Bottle 3 for sale, this time from Mikey B, and following my usual strategy of not listening to anything but buying on a hunch, I bought it.

Two days later it arrived. Let’s start by saying that for a small outfit, the Big Bottle 3 (henceforward BB3) is immaculately finished in nice case work, proper etched logo. Then I plugged it in. There was clearly a problem in the left channel, fairly alarming periodic thumps and noise through the speaker. Mike, then Oliver who makes the BB, were informed. It had clearly been damaged in transit (Mike had already sent a video of it working perfectly prior to shipping). ‘Send it back no problem, we’ll fix it’ said Oliver, (the ‘we’ being Alan of Firebottle who designed the BB), so I did.

Oliver tested the BB3 and identified a microphonic valve, a small area on the PCB that needed re-soldering, fixed that and sent it back, all free of charge. All good I thought but after a few hours, although the thumps had gone the noise in the left channel remained. Another call to Oliver: ‘don’t worry we’ll sort it. I have decided to replace the entire PCB’. Please remember, this was a second hand unit bought from one of Oliver’s customers. You can argue that he might fix any issues at cost but all this was being done at no cost to me other than some upgraded capacitors I decided to go for. In effect, I was getting a new phono stage free of charge.

After a couple of weeks building and testing my new BB3 arrived and I again I plugged it in, and wonderful it sounded, apart from - dreaded ground loop. Another chat with Oliver (who at this point was supposed to be enjoying a holiday). Today I rebuilt the system, tried every socket and re-routed cables. Still an earth loop somewhere, not audible from the listening position but annoying. Doubly annoying since I knew already how good the BB3 could sound. Another call to Oliver, where I threatened to lift the earth wire from the plug socket, temporarily, to see if it solved the problem before I fried various children and pets. “In the case there is an earth connection for the PCB, try removing it. The PCB will now float but the case will still be earthed”. Okay, let’s try that - Bingo! Ground loop gone, near silence and the best vinyl playback I’ve ever had by a long, long way.

So, the BB3 is a superb phono stage that absolutely shows how good a Dynavector XX2 is, strapped to a modded Technics. I won’t burden you with reviewer babble - it’s just really, really good! But, similar to the Leak thread this post is mainly a thank you. A thank you to Oliver for patiently taking all the time needed to talk this through and resolve everything perfectly, no corners cut, supremely helpful and patient throughout (as was I of course). I basically have a brand new BB3 built at no cost to me. That is customer service and why I buy (usually small) UK brands whenever possible.

Oliver - Feedback

Just to say, just received some terminated SAEC triple C from the Olster and once again, nothing but impeccable service.

More so, I've never met Oliver face to face but have had lots of hifi system communication and have always found him to be a genuine straight up guy, informative, helpful and always happy to share whatsoever he can to help you get the best from your set up. Has to be said, not everyone will share details and info of all the good stuf with you like this man does, he is a credit, plain and simple - I am grateful and can only wish him well

robbiegong