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Post by robbiegong on Nov 23, 2020 20:57:18 GMT
Having had my first Pioneer PD-91 for a good number of years I'd never really given it proper time, spending the years focused on the vinyl front end. Eventually I sold my heavily modded Techie 1210 and it was at this time, whilst awaiting my SP10 Mk2 that I decided to give the cdp some time and I was both surprised and thrilled. The PD91 delivered all the musical joy I'd read it would, analogue warmth, organic, weighty, depth, detail, non fatiguing, just excellent. Sadly after a few weeks of stellar sound and service, without any warning, it went from sounding fab to rubbish - lacking focus and definition, hashy, pinched, fatiguing, bad digital, just nothing special. As a result I sold it on. I've since plugged two other 91's in, one of which remains in my set up and still the sound is not as I remember. It is still not right. I was told to try another input so I plugged it into the line input and no change. I'm baffled, anybody have similar experience or have any idea what it might be ? Could it be the rca interconnects - maybe i need to try another set, or even the amp somehow ? I just dont know, it's strange..... Either way I really need to get to the bottom of it  |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,071
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2020 21:35:55 GMT
Having had my first Pioneer PD-91 for a good number of years I'd never really given it proper time, spending the years focused on the vinyl front end. Eventually I sold my heavily modded Techie 1210 and it was at this time, whilst awaiting my SP10 Mk2 that I decided to give the cdp some time and I was both surprised and thrilled. The PD91 delivered all the musical joy I'd read it would, analogue warmth, organic, weighty, depth, detail, non fatiguing, just excellent. Sadly after a few weeks of stellar sound and service, without any warning, it went from sounding fab to rubbish - lacking focus and definition, hashy, pinched, fatiguing, bad digital, just nothing special. As a result I sold it on. I've since plugged two other 91's in, one of which remains in my set up and still the sound is not as I remember. It is still not right. I was told to try another input so I plugged it into the line input and no change. I'm baffled, anybody have similar experience or have any idea what it might be ? Could it be the rca interconnects - maybe i need to try another set, or even the amp somehow ? I just dont know, it's strange..... Either way I really need to get to the bottom of it They are not the newest of units Rob.... maybe they need a bit of a recap and service? I don't buy vintage anymore as one minute they are Magnificent but the next completely hit and miss. Yammies were the same until they settled down. |
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Post by macca on Nov 24, 2020 8:33:47 GMT
Did you change the amp or speakers during this time? What is the amplification?
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Post by robbiegong on Nov 24, 2020 10:19:03 GMT
Thanks Oli, I hear you. As you know I've had a love affair with the Japanese vintage for as long as I can remember but agree. In my experience, particularly in regard to older cdps' it is a complete lottery buying vintage for the reasons you mention. I've found failure rate to be high, lasers have a shelf life / hours etc a bit like cartridge stylus's. It's easy to get caught up in the romanticism, the reputation of items like the PD-91, not to mention the looks and build, which you don't see now, without remembering that these things have most always done some serious playing time, mileage, lasers are no longer available, lasers fail after so long etc etc. You then end up with a very large and luxurious door stop. If I don't get to the bottom of this then I can only conclude that the 91's I've had are no longer performing optimally and that's what I'm hearing - my system is pretty revealing. If that turns out to be the case then my next cdp will be a new one. OK, It might not appeal to the eye like the 91 does but at least I'll start making steps towards breaking the never ending cycle of failure/issue and just get to enjoying the music without interruption. Hi Macca, I hadnt changed a thing when my first 91 went from sounding fab to crApp without warning, everything has remained pretty much the same since I've tried two other 91's. Neither have sounded as wonderful as I remember the first one did before it went bad. Amp is one of these, www.audioscope.net/sansui-aualpha-707dr-p-1660.html Big, solid thing - Sansui AU a707 DR in near minty order, which I bought a couple of years back pretty much NOS. |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 24, 2020 10:47:39 GMT
I have had the same issue with vintage Japanese stuff. 30-40 year old gear usually has something that has gone off kilter and becomes an issue. From cold start to warm operating temperature many components can undergo a fare bit of change and that change can tip the balance for a component such as a capacitor or transistor
to perform outside its specification and cause audible listening problems.
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Post by macca on Nov 24, 2020 11:57:02 GMT
I have had the same issue with vintage Japanese stuff. 30-40 year old gear usually has something that has gone off kilter and becomes an issue. From cold start to warm operating temperature many components can undergo a fare bit of change and that change can tip the balance for a component such as a capacitor or transistor to perform outside its specification and cause audible listening problems. Agree, in the absence of any other variables this is the most likely scenario. Might be worth getting someone to re-build the entire analogue output stage, I think it is all discrete on the PD91. |
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Post by robbiegong on Nov 24, 2020 12:09:55 GMT
As I say Macca, if I dont get to the bottom of it and I doubt I will as nothings changed, so it's likely as we've said, vintage not operating optimal type thing, then I cant be asked with more time, money spent.
The analogue stage is one thing, finding someone to do the work, transporting the thing to said person, getting it back, then there's still failing old laser potentially highly likely and so on and so on....
I really think i'll look to new after this. Somethings been telling me I need to go head over heart for once towards breaking the cycle of frustration / throwing good money at bad / longevity uncertainty
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Post by jimbo on Nov 24, 2020 12:14:40 GMT
I've been there myself Rob and I know how frustrating it can be. I have learnt that you can only go so far with vintage gear and then you either have to have a good audio engineer on hand or just move on to some new or newer gear.
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Post by macca on Nov 24, 2020 12:20:58 GMT
As I say Macca, if I dont get to the bottom of it and I doubt I will as nothings changed, so it's likely as we've said, vintage not operating optimal type thing, then I cant be asked with more time, money spent. The analogue stage is one thing, finding someone to do the work, transporting the thing to said person, getting it back, then there's still failing old laser potentially highly likely and so on and so on.... I really think i'll look to new after this. Somethings been telling me I need to go head over heart for once towards breaking the cycle of frustration / throwing good money at bad / longevity uncertainty Tell me about it, I've got a whole graveyard of classic CD players. I bought a book that covers every aspect of repair, it's as thick as the bible! Will have to wait until I retire. In the meantime gave up and gone with brand new CD transport and DAC. It's probably better in any case, just can't really judge properly at the moment due to other issues. |
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