Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 1, 2021 21:29:33 GMT
BUY IT. But get those XLRs changed before he posts it. Although he's used the same ones I do! Wife would kill me if I did too be honest  Nah, just flog something quickly and you'll survive lol |
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Post by macca on Sept 2, 2021 7:06:11 GMT
That's a really fair price as well. all the amplifier you'll ever need brand new for £2K , it's a bargain. |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 2, 2021 10:24:30 GMT
I guess not , i stand corrected !! Hahaha, ] I do agree with Macca though, that you just can't have enough power. While I agree that loads of power is fine, in my experience it usually isn't necessary and can lead you to missing out on some great sounding lower power amps. I've happily used 10wpc and 400wpc in my system. It's better to have 10 excellent Watts than 400 mediocre Watts imho. |
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Post by macca on Sept 2, 2021 11:03:53 GMT
that's easily avoided by not buying mediocre amplifiers in the first place. A good high power and high current amp will work optimally in all possible situations, the 10 watt won't.
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 2, 2021 11:11:21 GMT
That build is stunning. Proper transformers, short wiring and logically laid out. Nice binding posts and terminals too. As others have said, that's also a very good price. |
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Post by gninnam on Sept 2, 2021 11:18:18 GMT
Wife would kill me if I did too be honest Nah, just flog something quickly and you'll survive lol Been trying to flog my JVC DD Turntable for weeks but no interest |
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optical
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Post by optical on Sept 2, 2021 11:25:34 GMT
Nah, just flog something quickly and you'll survive lol Been trying to flog my JVC DD Turntable for weeks but no interest Hi gninnam, I'm genuinely interested but no chance of getting to Leeds anytime soon . . . . . if anyone happens to be passing or has any ideas I'm all ears. Feel free to PM me! Cheers |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 2, 2021 12:14:05 GMT
that's easily avoided by not buying mediocre amplifiers in the first place. A good high power and high current amp will work optimally in all possible situations, the 10 watt won't. That's exactly what I was going to say 🤣 |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 2, 2021 14:46:39 GMT
For the money I can't think of a single power amp that would deliver what that build would. Not in terms of noise, driving ability, accommodation, sweetness, nothing.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 2, 2021 14:55:22 GMT
that's easily avoided by not buying mediocre amplifiers in the first place. A good high power and high current amp will work optimally in all possible situations, the 10 watt won't. That's exactly what I was going to say 🤣 Ah, well.... I think it's a load of bollocks!  |
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Bigman80
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Posts: 16,401
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 2, 2021 14:59:10 GMT
That's exactly what I was going to say 🤣 Ah, well.... I think it's a load of bollocks! Fair enough. 🤣 |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 2, 2021 16:24:15 GMT
Ah, well.... I think it's a load of bollocks! Fair enough. 🤣 An almost entirely inappropriate analogy is that you wouldn't use a torque wrench to adjust a watch. You use a different tool for a different application. I think there's a grain of truth in that as applied to amps. I've heard muscle amps that have truly jolted me in terms of bass slam and the time taken for my ears to stop ringing. But they've been crap at reproducing musical delicacy at low levels. Also, to my ears all amplifiers sound different from each other in many different ways. So saying just get a decent high current amp and that's job done greatly misses the point as far as I am concerned. However, I'm always happy to disagree with pretty much anyone.  |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 2, 2021 17:12:07 GMT
That's what I thought Simon before reading your post. I don't believe I've heard of Joe Henry, but he has a good selection of hand made amps on ebay. He basically assembles the most popular DIY gear for those who can't, or don't want to do it themselves. He does very good work too. yes joe has been around for a few years now . some are on their 2nd or third lot of amps from him. the chap that the F5 came from had just had 8 monoblocks made for his big tune audio speakers and the guy that runs proac FB group on his third set . |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 2, 2021 17:58:46 GMT
Dsjr, the thing is the 686 isn't a muscle amp, the 86, 286 and 686 all perform, measure and sound the same before clipping. The only difference is the wattage.
Your notions of high power amps are based on outdated designs with a house sound and performance envelope that prefers difficult loads and power hungry designs.
I had a ksa 200, it simply mauled small 2 way speakers, the nuerochromes don't impose themselves on the playback.
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Post by macca on Sept 2, 2021 18:53:54 GMT
I doubt that there even is such a thing as a 'house sound'.
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Post by gninnam on Sept 2, 2021 19:16:52 GMT
He basically assembles the most popular DIY gear for those who can't, or don't want to do it themselves. He does very good work too. yes joe has been around for a few years now . some are on their 2nd or third lot of amps from him. the chap that the F5 came from had just had 8 monoblocks made for his big tune audio speakers and the guy that runs proac FB group on his third set . I am sure this is the same guy I bought my SP-10 from. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 2, 2021 19:20:35 GMT
Dsjr, the thing is the 686 isn't a muscle amp, the 86, 286 and 686 all perform, measure and sound the same before clipping. The only difference is the wattage. Your notions of high power amps are based on outdated designs with a house sound and performance envelope that prefers difficult loads and power hungry designs. I had a ksa 200, it simply mauled small 2 way speakers, the nuerochromes don't impose themselves on the playback. Can't see a comment off Dave. |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 2, 2021 21:28:18 GMT
Edit, Jerry not dsjr
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2021 5:59:36 GMT
I doubt that there even is such a thing as a 'house sound'. Wow. I'm speechless at that comment. You can't have heard much gear.  OK, it's complex, as House Sounds change and evolve with time. But for broad swathes of time it's very obvious to me. Why should it be a surprise if a designer's sonic and technical preferences are audibly repeated in the gear he or she comes up with? |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2021 6:02:57 GMT
Dsjr Jerry, the thing is the 686 isn't a muscle amp, the 86, 286 and 686 all perform, measure and sound the same before clipping. The only difference is the wattage. Your notions of high power amps are based on outdated designs with a house sound and performance envelope that prefers difficult loads and power hungry designs. I had a ksa 200, it simply mauled small 2 way speakers, the nuerochromes don't impose themselves on the playback. Yes, could be. I've not heard a Neurochrome amp in my own system, and didn't do any comparisons in the system (which sounded very good) in which I have heard one (Alan Firebottle's). I look forward to trying one. |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2021 6:14:12 GMT
.... That's a bit embarrassing. Being mistaken for dsjr. |
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Post by macca on Sept 3, 2021 6:35:08 GMT
I doubt that there even is such a thing as a 'house sound'. Wow. I'm speechless at that comment. You can't have heard much gear. OK, it's complex, as House Sounds change and evolve with time. But for broad swathes of time it's very obvious to me. Why should it be a surprise if a designer's sonic and technical preferences are audibly repeated in the gear he or she comes up with? well I said I 'doubt it' I didn't state it as fact or even that I personally am sure. I think the main reason amplifiers sound different is the load the speaker presents to them and how they cope with it. When we hear differences in equipment that has to be due to differences in frequency response. Since almost all amps have a flat frequency response into a dummy load the FR difference cannot be in the amplifier itself, it has to come from a combination of the amp and the speaker. That's why people can have completely different opinions on any given amplifier, some say it's wonderful others say they could not live with it. Because one is using speakers that the amp is comfortable driving and the other person is using speakers that the amp is not comfortable with. Most amps are crap, even expensive ones, and need an easy load to sound their best if we had a speaker that was a flat 8 ohm load right across the frequency spectrum with no phase shift I think that we'd struggle to tell any amplifier we used with them apart (assuming we did not run it into clipping). Otherwise what is the reason for the difference? How do you 'flavour' electrical current? You've only got frequency, amplitude and phase and I don't buy the idea that there is something as yet undiscovered. |
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Post by macca on Sept 3, 2021 6:46:12 GMT
I suppose I should add that to an extent I'm playing devil's advocate here since I have amps that do sound different even though they should have no bother with the speaker load. But then there is impedance matching to the pre-amp to consider too. Also it's possible that performance of one is degraded due to age and drifting of component values. So there are other potential variables.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2021 11:12:28 GMT
Putting amplifier sonic differences all down to frequency response differences seems waaaaaay too simplistic! There's is clearly (to my ears) a hell of a lot more than that going on.
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Post by macca on Sept 3, 2021 12:29:53 GMT
The difference we hear is frequency response differences in the output of the speakers. It can't be anything else.
The question is what causes that? Certainly in some/most cases it's a result of the amplifier deviating from its flat response under load. I'm open to suggestions as to what else could be happening to cause it.
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Post by firebottle on Sept 3, 2021 13:06:58 GMT
Phase anomalies, probably the greatest caused by the amplifier/speaker interaction, as you have said for response.
Also inequalities in the power supply section, particularly affecting the lower resisters.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2021 14:32:13 GMT
The difference we hear is frequency response differences in the output of the speakers. It can't be anything else. Nope, I don't buy that at all. Differences in transient response, inevitably frequency dependent, which would add a lot to the nuance of perceived audible differences, leading to the perception of resolution and fine detail, or the lack of it. That allows you to extract the impact of reverberation in the recording space as well as more information about the music and the way it is being played. The way the power supply responds to demand, also frequency dependent, will show up noticeable differences between components especially affecting the dynamic presentation in a complex fashion. There is just so much more going on than just tonal changes between amps, and other components, too. |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 3, 2021 14:46:31 GMT
.... Mind you, our different points of view may well explain why you enjoyed a budget range NAD amp and I thought mine was utter shite!
We're just listening for different things and in different ways in different kinds of music.
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Post by macca on Sept 3, 2021 16:10:08 GMT
.... Mind you, our different points of view may well explain why you enjoyed a budget range NAD amp and I thought mine was utter shite! We're just listening for different things and in different ways in different kinds of music. you had a different one to me though, later model. Also mine was not perfect either which is why I spent £1.6k on another Krell But my speakers are not an easy load. I will have to try it into some easier to drive speakers. On your second point I agree entirely. |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 3, 2021 23:01:22 GMT
Take a naim amp replace the tants with lytics, swap feedback caps, totally different sound. Before clipping it's down to gross distortion distribution, component choice and topology.
Not magic. House sound is very real.
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