Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 2, 2020 23:03:08 GMT
A month has now passed since I have re installed the system and a lot of the negative issues I had at the beginning have now rectified themselves. The Spotfire cable has been a significant upgrade for the Chord Epic Twin but this alone cannot explain the improvement in performance I have heard particulary in the last week. I can only sumise that a number of electrical and especially mechanical components have now settled down aftr 6 months in hibernation.
The VPI turntable has a large bearing that is attached to the platter which sits in a bronze sleeve. This interface has to work itself back together whenever the platter is removed as the oil and sleeve take sometime to make a very smooth interface. If you just roughly drop the platter into the bearing sleeve it will actually make an audible grinding noise until it has restablished a smooth contact surface. It then runs silent.
I now have a system that I find almost as satisfying as I did back in my previous house and in some areas it has surpassed the performance I had before. It now has even better imaging and depth and vocals are much clearer and defined. Where as some lyrics may have been slightly obscured before they are now crystal clear. There seems to be more information available, maybe more resolution but what comes across in particular is the solidity of the presentation whether it be instruments or vocals. These can take on an almost 3D effect and is rock solid. I have more furniture in the room now and the much larger listening space seems to be well attenuated. Bass is OK, treble and detail is very good but midrange is exceptional. What I have observed is how much I am now enjoying simply listening the music and the performer. I dont sit there and analyse and worry something is missing. There is enough happening to captivate and hold attention.
Due to Covid crisis, and I am in a lockdown area, it now makes it very difficult to borrow equipment so I am just going to have to wait until things move on before this can happen. In the meantime I think I may well just turn my attention to buying more music. On vinyl of course!  That's good news Jim. Never a bad move to concentrate on buying vinyl. |
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Post by electronumpty on Oct 16, 2020 18:58:03 GMT
Something very exciting happening tonight.......  A 1st date? 😘 |
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Post by firebottle on Oct 16, 2020 18:58:04 GMT
Hope it's good.
Happy new speakers.
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JimBlog
Oct 16, 2020 19:47:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by stevew on Oct 16, 2020 19:47:42 GMT
Ach... so
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 16, 2020 20:13:34 GMT
Christ, they look lost in there lol
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Post by rexton on Oct 16, 2020 20:23:05 GMT
What are they?
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Post by jimbo on Oct 16, 2020 21:14:51 GMT
Christ, they look lost in there lol I should have tried the statements!
No they are bigger than they look in the photo. Its just perspective.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 16, 2020 21:19:15 GMT
They were absolutely perfect however when i managed to eventually get them out of the box. These beasts are 32Kg each so need 2 people to move the buggers.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 16, 2020 21:26:39 GMT
They are Excellent speakers and I am confident they will be excellent once run in.
There are a few things we can try once you've have them for a while.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 16, 2020 21:47:47 GMT
They are Excellent speakers and I am confident they will be excellent once run in. There are a few things we can try once you've have them for a while. Absolutely amazing for the money. |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 16, 2020 22:01:45 GMT
Well that tonights listening session is over and I must say I am impressed. Finished with Aldous as usual and the clarity in her vocals was stunning. Great insight, I felt she was very present in the room. So they tick all the boxes in that respect.
We will see how they come on over the next few weeks and months but very good start.
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Post by electronumpty on Oct 16, 2020 23:05:11 GMT
I do like to look of those, very modern but not over stated. nice🙂
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Post by jimbo on Oct 17, 2020 5:34:47 GMT
Hope it's good. Happy new speakers. Thanks Alan, when the plague passes again hopefully you can come and have a listen. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 17, 2020 7:36:04 GMT
Well that tonights listening session is over and I must say I am impressed. Finished with Aldous as usual and the clarity in her vocals was stunning. Great insight, I felt she was very present in the room. So they tick all the boxes in that respect. We will see how they come on over the next few weeks and months but very good start. Time.......thats what these badboys need. When i spoke to Angus about his (he has a pair, hence the nudge towards these from me) he reported that they felt quite restrained upon the first lisen. They were Heco's previous line before the "Revolution" IIRC, and they sat in a warehouse in germany for some time as the last pair rolled off the production line about 18 months ago. They are cold, stiff and need some time to relax before you will get the best out of them. However, when they do run in, you will have a seriously impressive speaker on your hands. My day spent listening to them in Angus's system (with 80% of my system in it) created a truly inspirational sound and like i said, you have a little more space to give them. Well done for taking a punt. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 17, 2020 7:54:06 GMT
A couple more pics.   Wow....they look superb. I love the Piano Black finish. A Proper premium look. |
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Post by macca on Oct 17, 2020 7:55:59 GMT
Very tasty  |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 17, 2020 7:57:27 GMT
They are fantastically built and finished. I have seen speakers 20 times the price that are no better built than these.
Need to sort out a bit more stability for the base, either outriggers, granite slab ot gaia?
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JimBlog
Oct 17, 2020 8:11:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by stevew on Oct 17, 2020 8:11:16 GMT
They do look terrific.
I’m gonna need a bigger room.
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Post by macca on Oct 17, 2020 8:25:12 GMT
One comment re the 'lack of bass'. I don't think this is a running-in issue. At most it will take an hour or so for the speaker to run in.
Aa a system gets better/more accurate with speaker and amplifier upgrades I've always noticed that initially bass appears to be less. In fact it is just more accurate. You can test this by paying something with prodigious bass - anything by Jamiriquai is a good test (if you have any that is). Try something like that I bet you get 'holy F#ck' bass.
Smaller speakers like the Spendors always have bass lift around 100Hz to make up for the lack of anything lower down and you get used to it and it gives the impression of deep, powerful bass even though it isn't. Real deep, powerful bass doesn't sound like that.
Give it a bit more time listening you will realise that you can hear bass guitar notes far more lifelike and accurate than before. The listener needs to run-in, not the speakers!
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 17, 2020 8:31:44 GMT
They are fantastically built and finished. I have seen speakers 20 times the price that are no better built than these. Need to sort out a bit more stability for the base, either outriggers, granite slab ot gaia? Outriggers and Gaia II Perfect, but you need the carpet spikes too so factor in £100 more for those |
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Post by gninnam on Oct 17, 2020 8:40:50 GMT
Very nice looking speakers - do love piano black but dust magnets... Not a fan of rear ported speakers as need more care with positioning but in the room you have not a problem |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 8:57:25 GMT
You can’t beat new speaker day....
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Post by brian2957 on Oct 17, 2020 14:05:08 GMT
They look fantastic James . You do a lot of listening so I'm sure they'll come on song pretty quickly |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 17, 2020 14:15:23 GMT
They are even better in the flesh. Really superbly engineered, I haven't seen anything better. They don't sound hifi either (all top end treble and boomy bass), they actually sound very refined and well balanced.
I just need to find the right position in the room which will probably do my back in!
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Post by jimbo on Oct 18, 2020 5:49:18 GMT
One comment re the 'lack of bass'. I don't think this is a running-in issue. At most it will take an hour or so for the speaker to run in. Aa a system gets better/more accurate with speaker and amplifier upgrades I've always noticed that initially bass appears to be less. In fact it is just more accurate. You can test this by paying something with prodigious bass - anything by Jamiriquai is a good test (if you have any that is). Try something like that I bet you get 'holy F#ck' bass. Smaller speakers like the Spendors always have bass lift around 100Hz to make up for the lack of anything lower down and you get used to it and it gives the impression of deep, powerful bass even though it isn't. Real deep, powerful bass doesn't sound like that. Give it a bit more time listening you will realise that you can hear bass guitar notes far more lifelike and accurate than before. The listener needs to run-in, not the speakers! Good point there Martin, it is more about Bass accuracy rather than just you box going boom! Some of the top end speakers i have heard are all about bass control and get a grip. I suspect however I may need some more grunt in the power amp to not only drive these speakers but give some meaningful muscle to the bass drivers as they will go down to 20Hz on the specification. In reality I will be lucky to get about 30Hz. |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 18, 2020 5:55:45 GMT
Well that tonights listening session is over and I must say I am impressed. Finished with Aldous as usual and the clarity in her vocals was stunning. Great insight, I felt she was very present in the room. So they tick all the boxes in that respect. We will see how they come on over the next few weeks and months but very good start. Time.......thats what these badboys need. When i spoke to Angus about his (he has a pair, hence the nudge towards these from me) he reported that they felt quite restrained upon the first lisen. They were Heco's previous line before the "Revolution" IIRC, and they sat in a warehouse in germany for some time as the last pair rolled off the production line about 18 months ago. They are cold, stiff and need some time to relax before you will get the best out of them. However, when they do run in, you will have a seriously impressive speaker on your hands. My day spent listening to them in Angus's system (with 80% of my system in it) created a truly inspirational sound and like i said, you have a little more space to give them. Well done for taking a punt. I get your first point Oli and can understand that...just impatient to hear what they can do. Bower and wilkins suggest on their own speaker set up manual that their speakers will take 15 hours of use before the mechanical aspects have all started to stretch themselves and up to one week for their speakers to stabilise at room temperature. I presume this is because their products also come out of a warehouse that could potential be cold.
However after another 6 hours listeningl ast night the beasts woke up and produced something extraordinary in my room. It was a slice of high end audio Nirvana. Hope it continues this way. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 18, 2020 7:44:27 GMT
Time.......thats what these badboys need. When i spoke to Angus about his (he has a pair, hence the nudge towards these from me) he reported that they felt quite restrained upon the first lisen. They were Heco's previous line before the "Revolution" IIRC, and they sat in a warehouse in germany for some time as the last pair rolled off the production line about 18 months ago. They are cold, stiff and need some time to relax before you will get the best out of them. However, when they do run in, you will have a seriously impressive speaker on your hands. My day spent listening to them in Angus's system (with 80% of my system in it) created a truly inspirational sound and like i said, you have a little more space to give them. Well done for taking a punt. I get your first point Oli and can understand that...just impatient to hear what they can do. Bower and wilkins suggest on their own speaker set up manual that their speakers will take 15 hours of use before the mechanical aspects have all started to stretch themselves and up to one week for their speakers to stabilise at room temperature. I presume this is because their products also come out of a warehouse that could potential be cold.
However after another 6 hours listeningl ast night the beasts woke up and produced something extraordinary in my room. It was a slice of high end audio Nirvana. Hope it continues this way. Well that's good news lol.... |
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Post by macca on Oct 18, 2020 8:32:34 GMT
Time.......thats what these badboys need. When i spoke to Angus about his (he has a pair, hence the nudge towards these from me) he reported that they felt quite restrained upon the first lisen. They were Heco's previous line before the "Revolution" IIRC, and they sat in a warehouse in germany for some time as the last pair rolled off the production line about 18 months ago. They are cold, stiff and need some time to relax before you will get the best out of them. However, when they do run in, you will have a seriously impressive speaker on your hands. My day spent listening to them in Angus's system (with 80% of my system in it) created a truly inspirational sound and like i said, you have a little more space to give them. Well done for taking a punt. I get your first point Oli and can understand that...just impatient to hear what they can do. Bower and wilkins suggest on their own speaker set up manual that their speakers will take 15 hours of use before the mechanical aspects have all started to stretch themselves and up to one week for their speakers to stabilise at room temperature. I presume this is because their products also come out of a warehouse that could potential be cold.
However after another 6 hours listeningl ast night the beasts woke up and produced something extraordinary in my room. It was a slice of high end audio Nirvana. Hope it continues this way. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 18, 2020 8:41:48 GMT
I get your first point Oli and can understand that...just impatient to hear what they can do. Bower and wilkins suggest on their own speaker set up manual that their speakers will take 15 hours of use before the mechanical aspects have all started to stretch themselves and up to one week for their speakers to stabilise at room temperature. I presume this is because their products also come out of a warehouse that could potential be cold.
However after another 6 hours listeningl ast night the beasts woke up and produced something extraordinary in my room. It was a slice of high end audio Nirvana. Hope it continues this way. I read this review when Angus bought his pair and this phrase still doesn't make sense to me. Maybe lost in translation? "aurally critical ripples were not captured" Any ideas? |
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Post by macca on Oct 18, 2020 10:05:30 GMT
Just google translate doing it's stuff.
Whatever it means I think it's meant to be a good thing.
I can't find any measured performance for the speakers though. Sensitivity is claimed to be 92dB so can't imagine a Croft Series 7 will struggle too much to get decent levels without clipping. But it might be worth borrowing a beefier amp just to see if any gains can be had there.
I'd guess the impedance dips quite low as it usually does with this sort of modern speaker design. But there are exceptions to that. And it may not matter in any case.
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