bigbird
Regular
The Racing Snake
Posts: 200
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Post by bigbird on Aug 19, 2020 12:08:48 GMT
Really good to read Jim and what you are saying rings true about a really informative video I watched on YouTube recently by Dynaudio .
It goes on to explain about room sizes and shapes and the effects of the standing waves in a room and how in certain parts of the room certain frequencies will be lost or gained depending on where you or your speakers are positioned.
Every room is of course different but a good starting place is to have the front of the speakers about 1/5 in from the back wall , 1/5 in from each of the side walls and then the listening position central to that 1/5 away from the wall at the other end.
This will give a good starting point to be in the sweet spot where all of the frequencies and information can be heard and not lost to the standing waves .
Sounds like you’ve nailed your placement and more information is a very welcome symptom of that
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Post by brian2957 on Aug 19, 2020 12:13:56 GMT
The room I have my system in is 3m x 8m in length . You make me want to move the wife in here and I can have the much bigger living room as my listening room James Sounds like a win win for you in the new house / room
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Post by jimbo on Aug 19, 2020 16:15:21 GMT
The room I have my system in is 3m x 8m in length . You make me want to move the wife in here and I can have the much bigger living room as my listening room James Sounds like a win win for you in the new house / room Do you think that would be prossible!
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Post by brian2957 on Aug 19, 2020 19:43:26 GMT
The room I have my system in is 3m x 8m in length . You make me want to move the wife in here and I can have the much bigger living room as my listening room James Sounds like a win win for you in the new house / room Do you think that would be prossible! In a word ....nope
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Post by jimbo on Aug 20, 2020 5:44:45 GMT
Do you think that would be prossible! In a word ....nope
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2020 7:13:02 GMT
Nothing more exciting than new speakers.
Depends what you get but as a general rule big speakers are more efficient than small speakers so you might be okay with existing amplifier.
Have you considered just adding a couple of powered subwoofers instead?
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Post by rexton on Sept 4, 2020 7:28:26 GMT
After a good period listening to the system in the new room I now need to make a few changes as I have got a large itch to scratch..As much as I love my old Spendor speakers it maybe time to replace them after 34 years of service. They still sound great but they are unable to really do justice in my new listening room. Simply the room is too big for the speakers. I never thought I would be the case and it is usually the other way round, too large speakers in a small room.
It is not quite like listening to a transistor radio in a supermarket but you get the analogy. So the search will begin and luckily a few friends are there to help point me in the right direction. I have a feeling I am going to put my back out? A phone call yesterday has resulted in an exciting proposition which will hopefully happen in the next few weeks. I maybe about to find out just how large a speaker will work in my room or not! As much as I have endeavoured to keep the system I have enjoyed so much over the last 6 years it is now time to move on and some big and probably expensive decisions will have to be made. I am excited as I am at the beginning of a new HIFI adventure and I am not sure where it is going to take me but I know nothing will be quite the same at the other end and hopefully for the better.
Obviously a change of speakers is on the cards but this may lead to a requirement for more or bigger amplification. This for me is a far easier problem to solve so I will just accept this along the way and find the best cost effective piece of equipment for the job. I am sure the front end will remain epecially the turntable however I am going to look at MC cartridges which again requires further new equipment but this is a simple straight forward path in my mind and thinking.
Lots going to happen here at the new house in the near future which I will cover fully on this blog. Dates have already been pencilled in and equipment planned so I will write up fully my experiences going forward.
I know from what is coming it will be a very exciting time and I cant wait for it all to start.
Sounds good Jim, lets hope you have a nice system installed to see you through the winter months.
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JimBlog
Sept 4, 2020 7:31:25 GMT
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Post by stevew on Sept 4, 2020 7:31:25 GMT
Ohh.. very cool and very interesting. My wife has gone into full on ‘ let’s get this house sorted and move’ mood. Pointing out all this stuff on Right Move and how our furniture will fit.. all I can see are Kef R5’s !
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2020 7:39:22 GMT
Ohh.. very cool and very interesting. My wife has gone into full on ‘ let’s get this house sorted and move’ mood. Pointing out all this stuff on Right Move and how our furniture will fit.. all I can see are Kef R5’s ! Haha great Steve - I have heard the Reference 5s. Big and beatifully built but the Blades are far better! Maybe a small pair of Blades would suit your next house/room? I know someone selling a pair of Blades probably for a good price!
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2020 7:40:48 GMT
After a good period listening to the system in the new room I now need to make a few changes as I have got a large itch to scratch..As much as I love my old Spendor speakers it maybe time to replace them after 34 years of service. They still sound great but they are unable to really do justice in my new listening room. Simply the room is too big for the speakers. I never thought I would be the case and it is usually the other way round, too large speakers in a small room.
It is not quite like listening to a transistor radio in a supermarket but you get the analogy. So the search will begin and luckily a few friends are there to help point me in the right direction. I have a feeling I am going to put my back out? A phone call yesterday has resulted in an exciting proposition which will hopefully happen in the next few weeks. I maybe about to find out just how large a speaker will work in my room or not! As much as I have endeavoured to keep the system I have enjoyed so much over the last 6 years it is now time to move on and some big and probably expensive decisions will have to be made. I am excited as I am at the beginning of a new HIFI adventure and I am not sure where it is going to take me but I know nothing will be quite the same at the other end and hopefully for the better.
Obviously a change of speakers is on the cards but this may lead to a requirement for more or bigger amplification. This for me is a far easier problem to solve so I will just accept this along the way and find the best cost effective piece of equipment for the job. I am sure the front end will remain epecially the turntable however I am going to look at MC cartridges which again requires further new equipment but this is a simple straight forward path in my mind and thinking.
Lots going to happen here at the new house in the near future which I will cover fully on this blog. Dates have already been pencilled in and equipment planned so I will write up fully my experiences going forward.
I know from what is coming it will be a very exciting time and I cant wait for it all to start.
Sounds good Jim, lets hope you have a nice system installed to see you through the winter months.
I am looking forward to that prospect Andy.
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2020 7:45:28 GMT
Nothing more exciting than new speakers. Depends what you get but as a general rule big speakers are more efficient than small speakers so you might be okay with existing amplifier. Have you considered just adding a couple of powered subwoofers instead? I have pondered subs but I think they maybe difficult to integrate. Your right about bigger speakers but it depends on sensitivity and I know larger rooms tend to suck the power out of the system so you end up needing more grunt. A mate has moved to two monster mono blocks from a stereo amp in his room and his system sounds far better for it. Control, dynamics, low end grunt and general effortless scale driving monster speakers!
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Post by firebottle on Sept 4, 2020 7:58:39 GMT
The offer is still on to try my sub James, it's not a lot of trouble.
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bigbird
Regular
The Racing Snake
Posts: 200
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Post by bigbird on Sept 4, 2020 8:28:24 GMT
I think we know where this is heading Jim... floorstanders and a 686 😜
Look forward to seeing how it all pans out mate
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JimBlog
Sept 4, 2020 9:59:04 GMT
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Post by stevew on Sept 4, 2020 9:59:04 GMT
Ohh.. very cool and very interesting. My wife has gone into full on ‘ let’s get this house sorted and move’ mood. Pointing out all this stuff on Right Move and how our furniture will fit.. all I can see are Kef R5’s ! Haha great Steve - I have heard the Reference 5s. Big and beatifully built but the Blades are far better! Maybe a small pair of Blades would suit your next house/room? I know someone selling a pair of Blades probably for a good price! Good thing I’m wearing my rubber trousers... lol I think you know the costs of moving house, and I’m going to have to raid a pension fund to keep madam in the style she wants to become accustomed to!
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2020 10:31:31 GMT
jimboI have a feeling that this will be a very interesting adventure. You're a hard man to please and getting the right speaker to replace the Spendors, and keep those qualities you have come to enjoy, is going to be a tough task. Ideally, a bigger pair of Spendors? Maybe something similar. I know bigbird did a similar thing recently and has been very complimentary about his new Dynaudio Speakers. You guys have very similar systems so maybe a previously trodden path may prove valuable for the moment? Either way, I will be following your journey closely. Will be interesting to see where you end up!
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2020 10:36:15 GMT
Haha great Steve - I have heard the Reference 5s. Big and beatifully built but the Blades are far better! Maybe a small pair of Blades would suit your next house/room? I know someone selling a pair of Blades probably for a good price! Good thing I’m wearing my rubber trousers... lol I think you know the costs of moving house, and I’m going to have to raid a pension fund to keep madam in the style she wants to become accustomed to! Dont forget to keep a little fund aside for miscellaneous essential items!
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2020 10:54:22 GMT
jimbo I have a feeling that this will be a very interesting adventure. You're a hard man to please and getting the right speaker to replace the Spendors, and keep those qualities you have come to enjoy, is going to be a tough task. Ideally, a bigger pair of Spendors? Maybe something similar. I know bigbird did a similar thing recently and has been very complimentary about his new Dynaudio Speakers. You guys have very similar systems so maybe a previously trodden path may prove valuable for the moment? Either way, I will be following your journey closely. Will be interesting to see where you end up! Yes it is going to be a challenge but looking forward to it. As you have proven Oli with your system, everything can be bettered, fine tuned and moved on to a higher level of performance with careful selection of components. It is certainly going to be an interesting journey!
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2020 11:11:01 GMT
jimbo I have a feeling that this will be a very interesting adventure. You're a hard man to please and getting the right speaker to replace the Spendors, and keep those qualities you have come to enjoy, is going to be a tough task. Ideally, a bigger pair of Spendors? Maybe something similar. I know bigbird did a similar thing recently and has been very complimentary about his new Dynaudio Speakers. You guys have very similar systems so maybe a previously trodden path may prove valuable for the moment? Either way, I will be following your journey closely. Will be interesting to see where you end up! Yes it is going to be a challenge but looking forward to it. As you have proven Oli with your system, everything can be bettered, fine tuned and moved on to a higher level of performance with careful selection of components. It is certainly going to be an interesting journey! Nothing is safe in this system Jim lol....we know this by now haha.
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Post by jimbo on Sept 19, 2020 16:36:30 GMT
Not a great deal been happening with the system as all energies and cash has been diverted to restoring the house at the moment. But I have now purchased ater a wait of about 2 years a 4 Metre set Spotfire speaker cables. I have auditioned these on numerous occasions either in my own system or at Olivers. However I have now purchased a new pair which have been clad in some new livery which is rather understated and very much to my liking. They are quite a hevty cable but are now a little less bulky in their new cladding. These are superbly built and rival anything I have seen or borrowed from some boutique manufacturers. They are up there with the best and would not look out of place in any system regardless of the price. However these cables are not really about looks but about sound quality and frankly they are certainly the best speaker cable I have had in my system. They are so good that when you remove them there is a noticeable loss across all frequencies and the soundstage shrinks. I have written a review of these cables before but just as a reminder if you have Olivers Spotfire IC's and know what they can do in your system then these speaker cables offer more of the same. They have a big soundstage and great depth with a naturalness to the sound that comes across as a super smooth, fatigue free listen. High end information is all there but not exaggerated and low end bass is full and articulate with great layering and depth. To be honest these cables make you system sound like they have had a significant kit upgrade and not a cable upgrade which is hard to believe. In a word they are superb and I cannot find anything to fault with them. These are now a permenant part of my system and as Oliver knows things rarely move in or out of my system. Anything I put in has to justify its existence on many levels not least bring about a significant improvement. The Spotfire speaker cables easily do this and I would recommend anyone who has heard and likes the Spotfire interconnects to try these cables.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 16:48:39 GMT
Not got round to playing with cartridges yet then?
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 19, 2020 17:12:30 GMT
Not a great deal been happening with the system as all energies and cash has been diverted to restoring the house at the moment. But I have now purchased ater a wait of about 2 years a 4 Metre set Spotfire speaker cables. I have auditioned these on numerous occasions either in my own system or at Olivers. However I have now purchased a new pair which have been clad in some new livery which is rather understated and very much to my liking. They are quite a hevty cable but are now a little less bulky in their new cladding. These are superbly built and rival anything I have seen or borrowed from some boutique manufacturers. They are up there with the best and would not look out of place in any system regardless of the price. However these cables are not really about looks but about sound quality and frankly they are certainly the best speaker cable I have had in my system. They are so good that when you remove them there is a noticeable loss across all frequencies and the soundstage shrinks. I have written a review of these cables before but just as a reminder if you have Olivers Spotfire IC's and know what they can do in your system then these speaker cables offer more of the same. They have a big soundstage and great depth with a naturalness to the sound that comes across as a super smooth, fatigue free listen. High end information is all there but not exaggerated and low end bass is full and articulate with great layering and depth. To be honest these cables make you system sound like they have had a significant kit upgrade and not a cable upgrade which is hard to believe. In a word they are superb and I cannot find anything to fault with them. These are now a permenant part of my system and as Oliver knows things rarely move in or out of my system. Anything I put in has to justify its existence on many levels not least bring about a significant improvement. The Spotfire speaker cables easily do this and I would recommend anyone who has heard and likes the Spotfire interconnects to try these cables. Thanks Jim, and yes I agree of course lol. I am really pleased with how they turned out and will probably adopt the svelt black look for any future pairs. Yep, you don't change much in your system and the fact these have found a way in, says a great deal. I've built your BB3, so I'll deliver it on the same timescale, circa 2023 🤣🤣
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Post by jimbo on Sept 19, 2020 18:18:44 GMT
Haha, 2023 maybe a tad early! lol
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 19, 2020 18:55:25 GMT
Haha, 2023 maybe a tad early! lol Hahaha......I thought so!
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Post by jimbo on Sept 20, 2020 12:54:29 GMT
Not got round to playing with cartridges yet then? I will be trying one next weekend if I do not get swamped with house stuff.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,407
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 23, 2020 6:19:59 GMT
A few more evenings with the Spotfire speaker cable and a few more thoughts... I have had a few issues with attaching the speaker cables to my binding posts on the Croft power amp, but now they are very securely fixed with a very strong mechanical clamp in the holes normally reserved for bare wire connections. They are quite substantial on the Croft and will take a banana plug easily. This very secure fixing has believe it or not made a substantial difference to the sound. I think of it this way...if you have ever had a loose connection either on a cartridge tag, phono cable or indeed any connection somewhere in the system and this could even be a switch or grounding point it can introduce a slight vagueness or complete intermitent disruption to the sound. This can sometimes be either instantly recogniseable as a channel gone down but more often than not a weakness in one channel/speaker can sometimes go undetected. This has made me consider the importance of connections and connection interface materials etc and how often they are over looked in our system. We often put great importance on getting our equipment to perform at the highest level and will pay a fortune for speakers, amps and source but neglect the interconnects and speaker cables. Often and I am guilty of this I have used something that makes do and never thought that the tiny electrical currents that flow through these connections can be substantially affected by poor connectors and plugs. It is an area I am going to investigate further in the future. As we know volume controls can have a significant impact on the sound depending on their quality and construction so can all sockets and connectors going rght back to the plug. I have come to the realisation rather late that its no good having fantastic quality cables if your connectors are also not of the highest quality and ability, otherwise you are just throwing away all the hard work you have done trying to get that tiny electrical signal from the cartridge to the speaker voice coil! Welcome to "material enlightenment" lol Now, dont be surprised to find opposition to my opinion here, as it does seem to fly in the face of all things scientific and as such it makes me look like one of those "use you ears" types. However, you know me well enough to know i have spend a small fortune investigating this area and finding what i think makes the most money vs performance connection. Speaker binding postsSpeaker binding posts are pretty much Nickel plating on to brass, then gold plating over the top of that. Hence the brilliantly yellow-gold finish. These are the normal construction you find on 99.9% of commercially bought kit. They are cheap and cheerful and as you say, most audiophiles dont give them a second thought. It's a mistake. Swapping these little nasties for something of quality, like these from EIZZ, will make a difference to the SQ of your system: www.audiophonics.fr/en/binding-posts/eizz-ez-301-gold-plated-ofc-copper-binding-posts-o16mm-x-61mm-pair-p-9899.htmlAs you can see, at EUR10.00 for a pair, they are hardly going to break the bank. There is a caeat with these. They do not grip spade connections at all well, and are recommended only for Z plugs or banana plugs. They also flex a wee bit, but that never bothered me. I assume one day they will break off if i keep moving them around, But what matters most is the material they are made from. OFC copper It has been my repeated experience that making a secure connection has to be the primary objective. Without that you are wasting your time, so choose a binding post that suits your cables. I couldnt get those Viborg banana plugs out of these posts and i alway felt they were very well connected but as i say, more substantial posts may be required in your system. RCA Sockets & plugsThere is only one i use these days, and i have tried pretty much everything i could get my hands on. WBT, Cardas, AN, Yarbo, KLE....you name it, ive probably had a pair or two. I ended up at one point removing all of the connections and soldering the interconnects directly to the PCB's in my system. This was by far the absolute best way of doing things. The fluidity of the sound increased substantially (removed gold plated brass sockets) and the clarity and resolution just moved up to another echelon. The goal then became to keep as much of that as possible, but by using connections. The closest i have managed to get, and it's bloody close, is the CMC RCA socket and the Zavfino OCC RCA plug. Again, they are Gold plated Copper, not brass or "high content copper" and imo, they are one of the most critical investments i have made in the system and have had as much effect as changing a component like a DAC or Cartridge at times. As with my opening statement, this perspective will garner strong opinions based in the science which says the size and quality of the connection are more important, and the material is insignificcant due to the size of the signal etc....but i dont care. I know what happened when i did the experiments and i am not telling anyone to do the same, just that i had the experience.
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Post by misterc on Sept 23, 2020 7:43:53 GMT
Different materials genuinely do generate impedance's differences with cables and transmission lines. It is very simple to demonstrate this, the use of a VNA, S11 parameters, a controlled subject then various identical cables with different material connectors. Insertion losses can be easily identified and characterized Impedance mismatches cause the signal to be reflected back along the transmission line a number of times. A specific formula is used to quantify this if you do not have a rather nice device that will calculate this for you. Insertion lossThis causes sound differences whether the individual likes those differences is purely a personal matter.
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Post by brian2957 on Sept 23, 2020 8:24:27 GMT
Great post from both of you . James , a lesson on the importance of having a good connection . Oli , backing up his post by citing your own experience in this area . I will be examining all the connections in my system when I have some spare time .
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Post by jimbo on Oct 2, 2020 15:52:50 GMT
A month has now passed since I have re installed the system and a lot of the negative issues I had at the beginning have now rectified themselves. The Spotfire cable has been a significant upgrade for the Chord Epic Twin but this alone cannot explain the improvement in performance I have heard particulary in the last week. I can only sumise that a number of electrical and especially mechanical components have now settled down aftr 6 months in hibernation.
The VPI turntable has a large bearing that is attached to the platter which sits in a bronze sleeve. This interface has to work itself back together whenever the platter is removed as the oil and sleeve take sometime to make a very smooth interface. If you just roughly drop the platter into the bearing sleeve it will actually make an audible grinding noise until it has restablished a smooth contact surface. It then runs silent.
I now have a system that I find almost as satisfying as I did back in my previous house and in some areas it has surpassed the performance I had before. It now has even better imaging and depth and vocals are much clearer and defined. Where as some lyrics may have been slightly obscured before they are now crystal clear. There seems to be more information available, maybe more resolution but what comes across in particular is the solidity of the presentation whether it be instruments or vocals. These can take on an almost 3D effect and is rock solid. I have more furniture in the room now and the much larger listening space seems to be well attenuated. Bass is OK, treble and detail is very good but midrange is exceptional. What I have observed is how much I am now enjoying simply listening the music and the performer. I dont sit there and analyse and worry something is missing. There is enough happening to captivate and hold attention.
Due to Covid crisis, and I am in a lockdown area, it now makes it very difficult to borrow equipment so I am just going to have to wait until things move on before this can happen. In the meantime I think I may well just turn my attention to buying more music. On vinyl of course!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2020 16:07:38 GMT
Not got round to playing with cartridges yet then? I will be trying one next weekend if I do not get swamped with house stuff.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 2, 2020 17:01:23 GMT
Got swamped with house stuff. New bathroom has taken most of my time but it is finished tonight. So I will be free this weekend to get a listen to the cartridges at last!
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