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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 6:31:35 GMT
I took a chance and bought a mint Akai AP-D2 turntable, original packaging with manual fitted with an Excel es70s cartridge, a nasty plastic thing the bloke had mounted it on a wooden base. Bloke wanted the equivalent of 40 quid. This table realy does sound very good, although it has not been used for a while, I realy cat seem to part with it. I wonder how many other tables out there lacking a reputation sound good. Pics of the actual table form the original add.   The other 2 bargain tables I have are a Technics SLQ 20, mint condition with an AT 3482 P which a friend gave me when he returned to Italy also with original packaging and manual. Sounds very good. Snaps at the heels of my Rega. Then the Pioneer PL 15D which I rescued from a blokes garage gave him 5 Quid. It was in a rather sad state, the dust cover was scratch free, the plinth had lost its veneer, anti skate weight gone, the rest of it along with the belt was very good. I found a slightly used Sumiko Oyster, for next to nothing cleaned it up and got it running. I have since fully restored it, a friend who is a collector of note gave me a mint plinth, I fitted decent leads to it, and earthed it correctly, some clown had done something there. It now looks as good as new. I dumped the Sumiko and fitted an new AT 95e I got at a bargain price. The Sumiko Oyster realy did nothing for me. At the price I paid who cares. I hear the Pearl is not to bad but as usual the harm is done. These Pioneer PL series tables are lovely sounding and deserve their reputation. |
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Bigman80
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AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 13, 2019 8:55:27 GMT
I took a chance and bought a mint Akai AP-D2 turntable, original packaging with manual fitted with an Excel es70s cartridge, a nasty plastic thing the bloke had mounted it on a wooden base. Bloke wanted the equivalent of 40 quid. This table realy does sound very good, although it has not been used for a while, I realy cat seem to part with it. I wonder how many other tables out there lacking a reputation sound good. Pics of the actual table form the original add. View AttachmentView AttachmentThe other 2 bargain tables I have are a Technics SLQ 20, mint condition with an AT 3482 P which a friend gave me when he returned to Italy also with original packaging and manual. Sounds very good. Snaps at the heels of my Rega. Then the Pioneer PL 15D which I rescued from a blokes garage gave him 5 Quid. It was in a rather sad state, the dust cover was scratch free, the plinth had lost its veneer, anti skate weight gone, the rest of it along with the belt was very good. I found a slightly used Sumiko Oyster, for next to nothing cleaned it up and got it running. I have since fully restored it, a friend who is a collector of note gave me a mint plinth, I fitted decent leads to it, and earthed it correctly, some clown had done something there. It now looks as good as new. I dumped the Sumiko and fitted an new AT 95e I got at a bargain price. The Sumiko Oyster realy did nothing for me. At the price I paid who cares. I hear the Pearl is not to bad but as usual the harm is done. These Pioneer PL series tables are lovely sounding and deserve their reputation. I haven’t heard of the Pl15D. I do like the 12D though. I think you’re right about DDs. There are many sleepers. I’d like to try the Toshiba Geoff recommends. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 13, 2019 8:59:17 GMT
PL15 had terrible lateral tonearm friction i remember, as the auto return linkages were far worse than any Garrard I recall. The lateral balance weight caused more resonances than it was worth and it was commonplace to ditch it (the Rega R200 as fitted to the Planar 3 used to put a tight fitting stiff plastic sleeve between weight and bearing cradle and tightly push said weight to it before tightening (how you often identify a Planar 3 tonearm with better set horizontal bearings - no sonic difference, just in 'feel').
The AT/VM95E (and FF15E back in the day once the M75-ED disappeared) was about as far as a PL12-D could go and I honestly don't know why... Same with the Dual 505 series and an OM20, the OM30 and 40 making little improvement easily heard in 'better' turntables.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 13, 2019 9:02:44 GMT
My bargain turntable was the transit smashed Dual 1214 (1216 better) which I totally rebuilt with replacement tonearm (lateral bearing shaft was bent too), arm rest and to which I fitted a 1216 cast platter and re-set the under-deck bias correction for sub 2g tracking. crude and with a 10" platter, this thing sings beautifully and has a very gentle auto mech if cueing is pre-engaged with a single record, the arm happily tracking a 1g cartridge to my amazement right to side end where the auto trip is engaged. i use it at Christmas to play my 7" singles with a Rega carbon cartridge fitted
I'm fond of me Garrards too, but they all need substantial work now and can't be recommended to ham fisted amateurs and sonics after are variable. My Zero 100 is a wonderful conversation piece though and actually sounds very fair indeed despite the tonearm pivots and linkages.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 13, 2019 9:07:18 GMT
My bargain turntable was the transit smashed Dual 1214 (1216 better) which I totally rebuilt with replacement tonearm (lateral bearing shaft was bent too), arm rest and to which I fitted a 1216 cast platter and re-set the under-deck bias correction for sub 2g tracking. crude and with a 10" platter, this thing sings beautifully and has a very gentle auto mech if cueing is pre-engaged with a single record, the arm happily tracking a 1g cartridge to my amazement. i use it at Christmas to play my 7" singles with a Rega carbon cartridge fitted I'm fond of me Garrards too, but they all need substantial work now and can't be recommended to ham fisted amateurs and sonics after are variable. My Zero 100 is a wonderful conversation piece though and actually sounds very fair indeed despite the tonearm pivots and linkages. Rega Carbon is a nice cartridge. I’ve got you to thank for that one  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:15:34 GMT
PL15 had terrible lateral tonearm friction i remember, as the auto return linkages were far worse than any Garrard I recall. The lateral balance weight caused more resonances than it was worth and it was commonplace to ditch it (the Rega R200 as fitted to the Planar 3 used to put a tight fitting stiff plastic sleeve between weight and bearing cradle and tightly push said weight to it before tightening (how you often identify a Planar 3 tonearm with better set horizontal bearings - no sonic difference, just in 'feel'). The AT/VM95E (and FF15E back in the day once the M75-ED disappeared) was about as far as a PL12-D could go and I honestly don't know why... Same with the Dual 505 series and an OM20, the OM30 and 40 making little improvement easily heard in 'better' turntables. Cant say I have noticed any problems with the tone arm, or the auto return, it cant be that bad cause it is still performing faultlessly after some 45 years. They came fitted with two different arms.   |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 13, 2019 9:21:04 GMT
We had the one on the left. The one on the right looks like the 12-AC arm, which was massier I think and more rigid because of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:32:12 GMT
Mine has the one on the right.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:39:24 GMT
The AT/VM95E (and FF15E back in the day once the M75-ED disappeared) was about as far as a PL12-D could go and I honestly don't know why... Because it was regarded as strictly a 'budget deck' and nobody thought it worthy of anything more exotic than the M75ED. Whereas, it will actually perform perfectly well with a decent MC in it, not that most would believe it . |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 13, 2019 9:43:33 GMT
It doesn't - I tried!!!!!
We had several Pl12-D's in for service. All had motor drone in the background noise and ALL sounded bland as hell compared to a Rega 2. Motor drone is helped by reducing line voltage but back then, I couldn't get the sound quality any better than just plain bland and and ordinary. I did try several cartridges and that is why I said what I said about it!
My Duals however (12** series and single play 601 and 701) sound superb with an MC cartridge if the wiring is ok. Different world sir, different world even if motor drone and harmonics intrude if you're unlucky with the idler and early belt models being over-supplied causing motor vibration... The noises that many idler decks have (even some but not all Lenco's) that people just don't notice or choose to ignore baffles me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:56:08 GMT
It doesn't - I tried!!!!! Tried a ZYX on mine with in cast headshell. Sounded OK to me, although I think the phono cable would benefit from a higher quality replacement. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 11:35:32 GMT
Technics 'SL20'
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 12:54:06 GMT
Bought a new SL 23 in the mid 70's had it until the mid 90's it was a nice table, I passed it on to a girl friend. The caps for the speed pots had to be replaced at one time. The thing started to wonder like hell The stock cartridge built into the head shell was nothing special or bad either. Sounded great with a Linn K9 with an AT headshell. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 13, 2019 15:45:10 GMT
The SL20 was a good one we sold at the time with Stanton 500EE and the then too massy arm would be fine with todays 2g trackers from AT and so on. Good sound but not what rave reviews were made of sadly. As said above, the power supplies for the DC motors could be trouble and some used unobtainable IC's too. SL23 another crude auto return I recall (you should see the agricultural auto trip linkages on some of these Jap decks - B&O, Garrard and Dual had it to a fine art by this time.
Only 'we' would use a cartridge costing nigh on a grand in a cheap-as-chips disc spinner from the arc..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 20:21:12 GMT
Not sure if its a Bargin but they always appear cheap..
ERA 'Mk.6'
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