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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 21:30:32 GMT
I'm currently looking for an external dac for my lovely Sony X777es and am going crazy with so many options on the second hand market. I don't really want to spend silly money but have high expectations after living with a top notch vinyl rig. I've been offered an Audio Note DAC 3.1 for basically half the usual second hand price (if its legit) and I'm aware AN dacs offer what I'm looking for... Musicality, warmth, depth, texture, nuance and No glare.
I've also looked into SW1X, AMB, Limpiazator, Aqua la voce etc. Any thoughts guys - oh CD only.
Adey
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 12, 2020 22:01:43 GMT
I'm currently looking for an external dac for my lovely Sony X777es and am going crazy with so many options on the second hand market. I don't really want to spend silly money but have high expectations after living with a top notch vinyl rig. I've been offered an Audio Note DAC 3.1 for basically half the usual second hand price (if its legit) and I'm aware AN dacs offer what I'm looking for... Musicality, warmth, depth, texture, nuance and No glare. I've also looked into SW1X, AMB, Limpiazator, Aqua la voce etc. Any thoughts guys - oh CD only. Adey Well, by all accounts, the Topping D90 is highly recommended by the guys at ASR from a measurement POV and according to an extremely trusted source, the AK chips, one of which it uses, is a bit of a "secret sauce" used by some really high priced kit. I was severely tempted to hold out for the Holo Audio May, which by all accounts, both User and Reviewer, is a bit special and not unrealistically priced. Up to you, but I'd not look at price too much, it doesn't appear totally with performance in this area. |
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Post by antonio on Feb 13, 2020 1:52:06 GMT
You could look at Metrum dacs.
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Post by firebottle on Feb 13, 2020 8:42:41 GMT
Hi Adey, I run a Topping D50 dac and am not tempted to go for anything else.
Depending what you want to spend you could look for a second hand D70 dac, particularly if you want balanced connection. Reports are it's a little step up from the D50.
All Topping dacs are good vfm and the D50/70 and I imagine the D90 have selectable filters, I find this an excellent option as you can tailor the sound to a degree to suit your ears or system.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 9:27:20 GMT
What is wrong with thr DAC in the Sony?
You may find that an external DAC may give you a different sound, rather than better.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 10:25:21 GMT
What is wrong with thr DAC in the Sony? You may find that an external DAC may give you a different sound, rather than better. The Sony has a great analogue sound but isn't the most resolving. Some details I know should be there are not so readily discernible. It also has a little hardness in the upper mid which my valve pre (thus far) hasn't fixed, though some tube rolling might fix that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 10:49:46 GMT
That could be a problem with the "compressed" nature of CD audio. I assume you are comparing it to your old vinyl system?
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 13, 2020 11:13:08 GMT
What is wrong with thr DAC in the Sony? You may find that an external DAC may give you a different sound, rather than better. The Sony has a great analogue sound but isn't the most resolving. Some details I know should be there are not so readily discernible. It also has a little hardness in the upper mid which my valve pre (thus far) hasn't fixed, though some tube rolling might fix that. That's a really interesting observation. There has been much talk here about whether dacs have evolved much from the trusty Old dac chips of yesteryear, to that of the AKM and the Sabres of today. In all cases I can recollect hearing, the newer dacs, especially the ones I've heard of late, seemed to have excelled at detail retrieval but maybe lost that analogue feel. However in the case of the PecanPi, Allo Katana, Allo Boss, Topping D50, 30 and Chord Dave, There has been all the detail retrieval but the ability to be entirely enjoyable from a "sit and relax" pov. I've never had both from s strand alone cdp I had a Sony CDP of high quality, I forget the model number karma67 still has it. I kinda regret selling it as I seriously think it could do a job here with a D90, but I am convinced file based storage and replay is the way to go. So far, I am focussing on removing moving parts, which has yielded a positive result every time. Have you considered converting your CDs to FLAC and going that way? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 16:00:10 GMT
This subject does bring up good debates also polarizes opinions, do I go NOS, old school, latest new fangled multi dimension accessing wonder dac?
Having been down the nos route a few times, yes they can more relaxed, as well as being easier to listen to for extended periods but ultimately it just did not connect with the all aspects of the music that I really like in my music, other people will have different thoughts for sure Ex AN Dac 5 owner wonderfully bloomy and enjoyable it just lacks the real insight that pother dac have in spades.
A few newer dac I have listened to that paint a good in between sound the Metrum Pervane, at the time I have it paired with an Esoteric P-02 (I preferred the the Pevane to the matching Esoteric dac)
The Auqa dac's remind me very much of a slightly more polished chord Dave/ naim sound, quite a bit upfront, but clean and very dynamic.
I also went through the audiophile mill of do I need this or that? which thankfully I am now fully cured if I do need a fix, my brother is only 30 miles away so I do not get the shakes that often now!
Dac architecture has only really changed in the last few years, with the use FPGA for processing (even substituting these for dasc as well), multi dacs single chips some dac chips have 64+ connections lol
The main areas where a dac can really make a noticeable difference over another is the power supplies and output stage.
However the dac will perform according to how you supply it which includes the signal transfer system (cabling) and surrounding area you place the device on with regard to outside electrical fields.
That is why I have migrated to a all in one streamer / dac, yes it does have a separate power supply but that's my only concession
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 13, 2020 16:44:35 GMT
This subject does bring up good debates also polarizes opinions, do I go NOS, old school, latest new fangled multi dimension accessing wonder dac? Having been down the nos route a few times, yes they can more relaxed, as well as being easier to listen to for extended periods but ultimately it just did not connect with the all aspects of the music that I really like in my music, other people will have different thoughts for sure Ex AN Dac 5 owner wonderfully bloomy and enjoyable it just lacks the real insight that pother dac have in spades. A few newer dac I have listened to that paint a good in between sound the Metrum Pervane, at the time I have it paired with an Esoteric P-02 (I preferred the the Pevane to the matching Esoteric dac) The Auqa dac's remind me very much of a slightly more polished chord Dave/ naim sound, quite a bit upfront, but clean and very dynamic. I also went through the audiophile mill of do I need this or that? which thankfully I am now fully cured if I do need a fix, my brother is only 30 miles away so I do not get the shakes that often now! Dac architecture has only really changed in the last few years, with the use FPGA for processing (even substituting these for dasc as well), multi dacs single chips some dac chips have 64+ connections lol The main areas where a dac can really make a noticeable difference over another is the power supplies and output stage. However the dac will perform according to how you supply it which includes the signal transfer system (cabling) and surrounding area you place the device on with regard to outside electrical fields. That is why I have migrated to a all in one streamer / dac, yes it does have a separate power supply but that's my only concession That post perfectly aligns with the opinion of my DAC guru. Power supply seems to be a really important aspect with dacs, with many woefully sub optimal, much like my own rig *hangs head in shame* Glad you have yours sorted |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 21:45:32 GMT
I've decided not to rush into it as I don't feel I'm really giving the Sony the best downstream, namely a valve pre that still needs breaking in, and is still using stock tubes. Perhaps it's merely the fact that I know how technology has advanced that I feel I may be missing something. But I think it's better to fine tune the pre (change to some nice nos mullard if I can find a matched pair) and maybe even get some top notch kt88's for the arc ref 75 which is using very good psvane tubes at the minute. I also have to take into account that I'm no longer using a transparent autoformer as volume control but the bog Standard alps blue in the pre which I know masks nuance (I have plans to replace the alps with a bit of DIY and a tribute controller). Taking all of that into consideration I am not being fair to the Sony. And yes, I'm comparing it to the Allaerts, Vida, Reed, sp10 vinyl rig - which is pretty unbeatable.
Audio note and others like them annoy me because mere mortals can only go in at the lower end knowing the best the company can produce is a long way up the chain. If and when I pull the plug I would prefer to buy second hand something that until relatively recently was a companies top product and the best they could produce.
There is just so much choice. And I really am only interested in CD playback, at least for the foreseeable future - but almost all recent machines have a shed load of time and money spent on a plethora of inputs and their associates electronics etc - and which I'd prefer being spent on CD playback.
Vinyl was much easier!
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 13, 2020 21:52:52 GMT
I've decided not to rush into it as I don't feel I'm really giving the Sony the best downstream, namely a valve pre that still needs breaking in, and is still using stock tubes. Perhaps it's merely the fact that I know how technology has advanced that I feel I may be missing something. But I think it's better to fine tune the pre (change to some nice nos mullard if I can find a matched pair) and maybe even get some top notch kt88's for the arc ref 75 which is using very good psvane tubes at the minute. I also have to take into account that I'm no longer using a transparent autoformer as volume control but the bog Standard alps blue in the pre which I know masks nuance (I have plans to replace the alps with a bit of DIY and a tribute controller). Taking all of that into consideration I am not being fair to the Sony. And yes, I'm comparing it to the Allaerts, Vida, Reed, sp10 vinyl rig - which is pretty unbeatable. Audio note and others like them annoy me because mere mortals can only go in at the lower end knowing the best the company can produce is a long way up the chain. If and when I pull the plug I would prefer to buy second hand something that until relatively recently was a companies top product and the best they could produce. There is just so much choice. And I really am only interested in CD playback, at least for the foreseeable future - but almost all recent machines have a shed load of time and money spent on a plethora of inputs and their associates electronics etc - and which I'd prefer being spent on CD playback. Vinyl was much easier! Yes, I think you've made a seriously sensible decision there. That Alps needs to go!! Lol. I loathe them, and I think it's well documented by now lol Sort out the other stuff and at least narrow down the options of what could be scuppering the Sonics. Digital does seem to be a larger minefield than Vinyl, I absolutely agree. However, I'd keep it simple. A cheap Topping D70 could be found and tried, just to ease intrigue? |
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